Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 95
  1. #41

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    10,726
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33547
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    My favorite urban myth in skating is still alive I see: Cohen's spiral on a flat. How could she travel in a curve as I've seen her do, if she wasn't on an edge, I wonder. Magic!
    Her edges got much deeper as her career progressed -- the only "spiral" of hers that really was on a flat was her "Sasha curl" which usually just progressed in a straight line down center ice -- gorgeous position which demonstrated her great flexibility.
    Her OE was excellent but her IE was not as deep as Kwan's.
    Yes, she did have a very good OE, but her IE was much weaker than Kwan's which sometimes seemed a bit to this non-skater.

  2. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,982
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Irina's coverage was good, but it's not like she held the position across the ice. I'm more impressed when the position is sustained as it moves across the ice without having to drop the position, stroke a few times and then do the position again...

    I agree with the majority: Kwan reigns supreme in the spiral. The power she had with that move is amazing! The strength of the edge, how effortlessly she's able to go from a deep inside edge to an outside edge, the steadiness of the free leg (no wobbling), the extension and back position, the speed, the ice coverage and the way she used it in her programs...simply incredible. It is her signature move and is really the iconic move in figure skating.

    Sasha's was wonderful as well. The 180 degree split and toe point was gorgeous; however, she never really got the hang of the COE spiral--she often had to put her foot down to change her edge or would wobble quite a bit. She usually executed the move on the flat of the blade but it was still lovely. In terms of other spirals, Sasha's fan spiral to skid move is a favorite of mine.

    Mao has a number of lovely spirals. I think she has one of the best fan spirals in the world: the extension is gorgeous and the lean on the edge is amazing. Her classic position is lovely, though she tends to drop her back a little too much at times.

    Mirai's spiral has lovely lines and wonderful extension, though it's not as fast or powerful.

    Yu-Na has great speed and coverage on her spiral but her position (turnout and hip position) is pretty mediocre...

    Caroline Zhang had very lovely spiral positions (classic, catchfoot, Charlotte). Her speed and depth of edge wasn't all that great, but she had good control in her COE. Plus that backwards extension move was awesome!

    Sarah Hughes had a nice spiral in terms of extension. Emily Hughes had good extension but I never liked her spiral b/c her forehead was six inches from the ice. Okay, I'm exaggerating but she dropped her back way too far down...
    Emily's biellman position on that deep inside curve was definitely the best of any lady skating today.

  3. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Huh? Got an example of more ice coverage with fewer strokes over three positions?

    Look especially at the second two spiral positions, which did not have any strokes between them, just a three turn.

    To clarify, I'm not debating that Irina had excellent ice coverage, just that the spiral positions (especially in context of this thread/discussion) don't measure up to Kwan, Cohen, etc. in terms of difficultly. In that clip Irina has great speed and coverage but her positions were weak and she didn't sustain any position for longer than maybe two and a half seconds.

    But in terms of great ice coverage with less strokes and more difficulty:

    Michelle Kwan - from one end to the next with zero strokes in between, including a change of edge...all while holding the same position.

    and another

    Yu-Na Kim - again, from one end to the other, with zero strokes in between including a change of edge and position.

  4. #44
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    30,120
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34026
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    Her edges got much deeper as her career progressed -- the only "spiral" of hers that really was on a flat was her "Sasha curl" which usually just progressed in a straight line down center ice -- gorgeous position which demonstrated her great flexibility.
    Yes, that's the one people point to when they wish to illustrate her flat edge on a spiral. I think this move was invented by Sasha and she chose to execute it on a flat. Other than that her spirals always traveled on a curve, sometimes a circle (usually in an exhibition). I don't understand why people keep claiming Sasha's spirals were on a flat where there's a wealth of youtube evidence to the contrary. No, her IE wasn't as deep as Kwan's but she had excellent edges and control on her spirals, something that I believe to be widely acknowledged by fans, commentators and judges.
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    Yes, she did have a very good OE, but her IE was much weaker than Kwan's which sometimes seemed a bit to this non-skater.
    Kwan's IE was the best. It was crazy deep. Her control of the blade in general was very smooth and flowing.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    En el trabajo en mi obra maestra, "Bodegón de rosas, las toronjas y el Planetario", que se llevará algún tiempo.
    Age
    33
    Posts
    23,082
    vCash
    80943
    Rep Power
    91368
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Emily Hughes had good extension but I never liked her spiral b/c her forehead was six inches from the ice. Okay, I'm exaggerating but she dropped her back way too far down...
    I agree that she dropped her upper body too far down, but I have to say that I'm impressed by that spiral. It's not in the Kwan/Cohen league, but she could've kept going on it if she'd wanted to, which wins big points with this viewer.

    Also, Fleur Maxwell certainly deserves a mention in this thread.

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I've seen her COE live, and yes, she had the hang of it. The judges thought so too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suyKb...9A442821C4A629
    Well that was pretty good ...but I still think in terms of edge depth and strength she doesn't really compare to some of the others. That spiral sequence was faboo though! Sasha definitely had some of the most creative spirals...and later Caroline Zhang.

  7. #47
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    30,120
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34026
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    But in terms of great ice coverage with less strokes and more difficulty:

    Michelle Kwan - from one end to the next with zero strokes in between, including a change of edge...all while holding the same position.

    and another

    Yu-Na Kim - again, from one end to the other, with zero strokes in between including a change of edge and position.
    Kwan's is beautiful but Kim's makes me cringe. Yes, it covers a lot of ice but her above the boot position is just ugly. I was never a fan of her skating because of her lack of extension and stretch in body, limbs and toes.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  8. #48
    Fetalized since 1998
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Waving my Adam banner
    Posts
    2,587
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33733
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    To clarify, I'm not debating that Irina had excellent ice coverage, just that the spiral positions (especially in context of this thread/discussion) don't measure up to Kwan, Cohen, etc. in terms of difficultly. In that clip Irina has great speed and coverage but her positions were weak and she didn't sustain any position for longer than maybe two and a half seconds.

    But in terms of great ice coverage with less strokes and more difficulty:

    Michelle Kwan - from one end to the next with zero strokes in between, including a change of edge...all while holding the same position.


    Thanks, gave me a chance to rewatch that glorious program and hear the guys from Eurosport..

  9. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Kwan's is beautiful but Kim's makes me cringe. Yes, it covers a lot of ice but her above the boot position is just ugly.
    I've never been a fan of her spiral position because it's rather to me. I'm ol' school: I like nice extension and pointed feet, so Yu-Na's spirals and spins always touched a nerve. BUT I definitely respect the speed and coverage she maintains. Her position isn't terrible; it's better than quite a few out there...but it could be a lot better.

    I always say Yu-Na's lines from her waist up are glorious: lovely arms, shoulders, neck and head...but from the waist down it was a different story.

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,459
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    To clarify, I'm not debating that Irina had excellent ice coverage, just that the spiral positions (especially in context of this thread/discussion) don't measure up to Kwan, Cohen, etc. in terms of difficultly. In that clip Irina has great speed and coverage but her positions were weak and she didn't sustain any position for longer than maybe two and a half seconds.

    But in terms of great ice coverage with less strokes and more difficulty:

    Michelle Kwan - from one end to the next with zero strokes in between, including a change of edge...all while holding the same position.

    and another

    Yu-Na Kim - again, from one end to the other, with zero strokes in between including a change of edge and position.

    I'm talking about total ice coverage for three positions. Kwan doesn't have a third position and doesn't get as close to the boards. Kim doesn't get as close to the end of the ice and takes more strokes between her second and third position that Slutskaya took between the first and second.

    The fact the same amount of ice or more can be covered in fewer seconds is a plus, not a minus.

    And I would argue (based on my own skill level, which is far below that of any of these skaters) that a forward inside-to-outside change of edge while maintaining the spiral position (I can do it) is easier than back inside spiral-drop free leg for back inside three-back up to forward outside spiral (I can't, or certainly not at speed).

    But you see what you want to see.


    I'm not talking about beauty of positions at all, by the way. My initial post was to appreciate spiral sequences that impressed me for other reasons.

  11. #51
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    30,120
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34026
    I've been rewatching Cohen's spirals and am wondering that she may not have covered as much ice during a spiral because she was trying to cram so many different spiral positions into a sequence, fan, arabesque, charlotte, etc. She had to interrupt her spiral to get into the next position.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  12. #52
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    30,120
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34026
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I've never been a fan of her spiral position because it's rather to me. I'm ol' school: I like nice extension and pointed feet, so Yu-Na's spirals and spins always touched a nerve. BUT I definitely respect the speed and coverage she maintains. Her position isn't terrible; it's better than quite a few out there...but it could be a lot better.
    Sorry, I think it's terrible for someone of her caliber. My pet peeve with YuNa was always the lack of pointed toes and lack of any attempt at extension of any of her body and limbs. It killed the enjoyment of her skating for me.

    Didn't really think much of her arms either.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  13. #53
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    But you see what you want to see.

    I'm not talking about beauty of positions at all, by the way. My initial post was to appreciate spiral sequences that impressed me for other reasons.

    Fair enough. I respect the speed and coverage Irina had there but, IMO, the lesser degree of difficulty in terms of positions and sustaining the movement across the ice makes it less impressive...but that's just me.

  14. #54
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    241
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    For me Sasha's spirals wins hands down because of many different reasons. I know that Kwan had better change of egde and generally her change of edge spiral was excellent. However, her spiral glory is seen only in that one spiral and maybe also in her charlotte. And that's all!! COE arabesque and backward charlotte. Tell her to do Y spiral, fan spiral or biellman spiral and hold it for a few seconds with the same sureness and control she has in her COE arabesque. People, you won't see it there! She was brilliant only in COE, that's all. Sasha has variety of beautiful positions with fantastic control, extention, toe point, back position and when the COP came into the scene she was easily able to do all the features for levels AND bullets for GOE. On the other hand, Kwan was crushed by COP spiral sequence, because she had to include three positions, ALL held for at least three seconds. It wasn't enough anymore to hold COE arabesque for a long time and then go to the next element.

    Look here, she does beautiful COE arabesque and then she has shaky edge on her fan spiral, poor extention and holds it for about one second. Then, look at her Y-spiral, it's done basically on the flat.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgYMR6B8s8I&t=2m52s

    This is a perfect spiral sequence by Sasha which got one of the highest score ever:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPsDX9AiHEQ&t=1m36s
    Perfect extention, toe point, minimal delay between positions, control in her edges, good change of edge etc. And the positions are very difficult, Kwan wouldn't ever do backward Y spiral and change it to fan spiral or that backward biellman.

  15. #55
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    On the other hand, Kwan was crushed by COP spiral sequence, because she had to include three positions, ALL held for at least three seconds. It wasn't enough anymore to hold COE arabesque for a long time and then go to the next element.

    Look here, she does beautiful COE arabesque and then she has shaky edge on her fan spiral, poor extention and holds it for about one second. Then, look at her Y-spiral, it's done basically on the flat.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgYMR6B8s8I&t=2m52s
    in this clip here, michelle's y spiral is definitely not on a flat (which shows she continued to try and mold her skating to COP and add new positions, even as her body was injured):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T50xiHVKtU0#t=2m47s

    COP rules change all the time and there is no more requirement for 3 spiral positions held for 3 seconds. also in the clip you posted it was her first real COP competition and one of her worst major competition performances in 10 years. as I recall her timing to the music was totally off among other things because she was rushing to bend to the new rules and hold her spins and positions longer

    also what's special about her change of edge is that it isn't just glorious when it's a forward spiral but also as a backwards spiral which has been demonstrated earlier in this thread. this in addition to her charlotte, fine kerrigan spiral, and the ability to do a y spiral the few times she even considered it. the y spin is like an old friend for her, I'm sure it wasn't a huge ordeal to adjust that position to a spiral move, it's likely easier to hold than an arabesque since there's the aid of the hand, she just hadn't needed a new position before COP

    before COP michelle tended to only hold her COE and kerrigan and then do a really quick back catchfoot or y spiral for like half a second
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 01-07-2012 at 01:24 AM.

  16. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    In terms of other spirals, Sasha's fan spiral to skid move is a favorite of mine.

    agreed. I think that's sasha's most magnificent move. the thing is, even though mao has a good position on her fan spiral it still seems somewhat awkward and gangly when she does it! sasha's is so free and elegant..mao's kind of hangs out more to the side

    the hydrant/fan move is just so awkward to begin with only sasha can really pull it off

  17. #57
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,708
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I like Yuka Sato's spiral! Of course I love Michelle's too. As for Yuna's, yuck.

  18. #58
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I like how Michelle exits her Charlotte spiral here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFlbL0riDE (starting at 3:51)

    WOW! that's the first time I've seen this program.

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    494
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Kwan's is beautiful but Kim's makes me cringe. Yes, it covers a lot of ice but her above the boot position is just ugly. I was never a fan of her skating because of her lack of extension and stretch in body, limbs and toes.
    Yu Na also has a noticeable "bump" when she changes edge. I am a fan but have to concede that her spiral is not the among the best.

  20. #60
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    109
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Andrew Speroff has one of the best spirals out of mens figure skating...and he is a PAIR BOY!!!! It is nice to see a pair boy with a spiral that looks effortless and elegant not strained...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •