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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    I agree, the Flatt bashing was going on LONG before "tibia-gate" or even her controversial 2010 Natls victory.
    I guess there is a discrepancy between her personal charm and the charm of her skating.
    I thought she was a beautiful skater as a junior.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    I'm over the Michelle/Tara wars, but that was an epic skate off. Mirai vs Rachael at Nationals is in comparison. To each his own.
    But Rachael vs. Mirai (vs. Alissa) is the all we've got now.

    Ok, we have Gracie Gold too, but she already has her own out-of-control thread.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501 View Post
    It could be she agreed to do the show for "reduction" in ice costs or other "support" too. Who knows. To me, that is "payment" but it's not direct cash.
    AGAIN that is not the case in our rink. Rachael took time out of her schedule (she was headed to Colorado the next day) to perform. She not only does not expect nor ask for "special treatment" she signed numerous autographs and graciously posed for pictures with any and everyone who asked for one. She also stayed for the final bows, when it really wasn't required, due to her schedule.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    JMO but this tirade would have more impact if it were in the US ladies thread and not one specifically about Rachael. Why must one have to discuss ALL US ladies in a thread specifically about Flatt?
    My post was in response to someone else's post about giving different skaters a chance. Who are these different skaters if not other US ladies?

    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    bashing may be getting "old" but it speaks to nothing else but how little people think of Flatt..
    No, it probably doesn't speak about the skaters. It does however speak volumes about the posters themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    this talk of "sport" and "earning a place" is rich in context to skating, a subjectively judged sport where results are debated back and forth for decades. Yes, the judges chose Flatt over Mirai in both 2010 and 2011, and both decisions are hotly debated results. So one can take a haughty attitude on a skating discussion board and pretend it's all concrete, like one athlete reached the finish line before the other, but if people want to believe that the judges propped Flatt up at nats over the years, and then got what they deserved by her crappy results at worlds/Olys, then that's their prerogative, new old or otherwise.
    Let's not pretend these Rachael threads are simply made up of fans hotly contesting results. They're not. Rachael gets put through the ringer in more ways than one. I'm not a big Rachael fan, and I enjoy snarking and competition debate as much as the next person, but the vitriol thrown at her is unreal. JMO

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackOnTheIce View Post
    AGAIN that is not the case in our rink. Rachael took time out of her schedule (she was headed to Colorado the next day) to perform. She not only does not expect nor ask for "special treatment" she signed numerous autographs and graciously posed for pictures with any and everyone who asked for one. She also stayed for the final bows, when it really wasn't required, due to her schedule.
    Thank you for posting this!

    And Mayra, too!

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Ok, we have Gracie Gold too, but she already has her own out-of-control thread.
    Oh how soon we forget Christina Gao...

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Oh how soon we forget Christina Gao...
    Who?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    I could understand the anger towards Flatt in a sense- but I still truly believe the bashing is going on in spite of "tibia-gate" and recent (perceived) Nationals favoritism towards her, not because of them.

    I do think the aforementioned events have intensified the bashing, though. But let's not act like there would be none if she was still her steady consistent self from 2008/2009.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Oh how soon we forget Christina Gao...
    One season, you are the second coming of Kim Yu-Na, the next you have waxeled your way to oblivion. Fans are cruel.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Skating is a sport. It's not about chances and at this level it's not about opportunities. If someone other than Rachael wants to go to Worlds, then they need to earn their place. I'm not sure why Rachael keeps getting hit over the head with Worlds results when Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner have all had similar results. If we are using Einstein's logic maybe we should leave them all home and go with someone else?

    The Rachael bashing is old and tired. Then again it speaks to how little people think of Wagner, Nagasu and Czisny that everyone is so caught up on Rachael's chances at Nationals. Not exactly high hopes there. I'm not a big Rachael fan, but i respect her determination and ambition. She's not the most talented skater, but she's hard working on the ice and off of it. At this point it's irrelevant to me if she can juggle school and skating. So long as she enjoys doing both, then I say more power to her! If she manages to make it to the World team, then good on her. I'm tired of Rachael being blamed for the state of skating(ladies) in the US. The US ladies have no one but themselves to blame for lost opportunities. JMO
    Entire post. *APPLAUDS*

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post


    Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...maybe leaving Rachael off the team and giving a different skater a chance will give the US different results.

    If that were a correct definition of insanity who among us would not end up in the looney bin? Your car won't start. How many people give up then rather than trying to crank it again and again, hoping, expecting the result might be different (and sometimes it is).

    While the quote is frequently attributed to Einstein and he did write it in letters to Slovine,
    it has also been attributed to others;however,
    it appeared pre-Einstein in AA handbook (narcotics anon) . Some even claim it to be a Chinese proverb.

  12. #92
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    Unless Rachael steps up her technical content, I don't think there will be an issue of her making the team this year. Her layout for SC was terrible and her layout for COR was something you'd see on the junior level (no lutz, one flip). She does not have the Kostner edge whereby she can dumb down her technical difficulty and still finish on the podium. Rachael's main selling point was her jump consistency; without her jumps or consistency, she doesn't have anything to fall back on. Her EOE program is nice, but it doesn't have the same effect...and even at its best last year (her nationals performance) it still placed only 3rd in the segment. Her LP isn't strong enough to carry her over either (though that's more Lori's fault than Rachael's IMO).

    Rachael doesn't have a lot going for her this year in terms of skating: her jumps are gone, her difficulty is gone, her programs aren't doing anything for her, plus her reputation with the judges has taken a serious hit. Add that to what happened last year at worlds and I can't see much of an incentive to send her this year unless Mirai, Alissa and Ashley completely tank.

    Mirai is a wildcard who is capable of competing with the best in the world when she's on and even when she's off, she places well. Alissa has had a good amount of success in the last year and a half and the judges really like her. Even with mistakes the judges will give her boost in PCS and GOE. Ashley has made improvements and is hungry for the chance to prove herself on the world stage which means she's more motivated than anyone to do well.

    Rachael has to bring her A+++ game if she wants a spot this year. I think skating well should be her goal b/c, going by what she's put out in her last couple of performances, a shot a worlds seems unlikely.
    Last edited by kwanatic; 01-05-2012 at 06:21 PM.

  13. #93
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    We can talk all we want here about how she has no chance, but really- the skating (and the judging, too) will talk. I wonder if any surprises are in store?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    We can talk all we want here about how she has no chance, but really- the skating (and the judging, too) will talk. I wonder if any surprises are in store?
    I thought her ESPN interview was a bit odd: that she is going to show off the artistic side of her skating as opposed to tech (doesn't bode well for the tech IMO) and how she is battling fatigue, sleep deprivation and a cold, typical of college students during finals, along with the injuries of an elite skater. She was studying for her vector calculus final! This is isn't rhetoric and communications (no offense). Unless you are an uber math wiz, this requires a lot of work.

    IMO this appears as if she is setting the standard rather low for Nationals.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    The bashing may be getting "old" but it speaks to nothing else but how little people think of Flatt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    No, it probably doesn't speak about the skaters. It does however speak volumes about the posters themselves.
    Bingo. Especially those who have made nasty comments about her weight and perceived "pretty-ness" (or lack thereof).

    Let's not pretend these Rachael threads are simply made up of fans hotly contesting results. They're not. Rachael gets put through the ringer in more ways than one. I'm not a big Rachael fan, and I enjoy snarking and competition debate as much as the next person, but the vitriol thrown at her is unreal. JMO
    I think a lot of it comes from bitter fans of underachieving skaters. They are anxious for Rachael to retire to give "their" skaters a better chance. Well, why the heck don't those skaters step up to the plate already and stop bombing at Nationals??? If they step up, then surely they will get the 40-foot billboards.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I thought her ESPN interview was a bit odd: that she is going to show off the artistic side of her skating as opposed to tech (doesn't bode well for the tech IMO) and how she is battling fatigue, sleep deprivation and a cold, typical of college students during finals, along with the injuries of an elite skater. She was studying for her vector calculus final! This is isn't rhetoric and communications (no offense). Unless you are an uber math wiz, this requires a lot of work.
    I'm starting to wonder if Rachael is a masochist! Bless her.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  16. #96
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    Some people like to push themselves to an absolute max. It's an admirable quality.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    We can talk all we want here about how she has no chance, but really- the skating (and the judging, too) will talk. I wonder if any surprises are in store?
    Sadly...

    She could skate beautifully, not make one error etc...

    And posters on here would claim 'it was horrid' Thier minds were made up years ago and they wouldn't change them regardless LOL!

    Hopefully Rachel never reads these boards.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I think a lot of it comes from bitter fans of underachieving skaters. They are anxious for Rachael to retire to give "their" skaters a better chance. Well, why the heck don't those skaters step up to the plate already and stop bombing at Nationals??? If they step up, then surely they will get the 40-foot billboards.
    I don't think that's it. I don't see fans of Cohen, Hughes, Nikodinov and Kirk etc being bitter about Kwan for occupying the US throne / US world team for a full decade. That's because Kwan deserved those titles / world berths. (there were calls for her to step down every once in a while, but no one would ever trash her skating). The fact is her placement at the past 2 Nationals have been rather hotly debated (rightly or wrongly).

    Secondly, even if Flatt undisputedly earned her US title in 2010 and silver medal in 2011, most people would probably still have the same feeling about her skating. Most had the same feeling (that her skating was mediocre but she was consistent and reliable) when she won Jr Worlds in 2008 and placed 5th in 2009.

  19. #99

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    Rachael is at Stanford

    Although I've never been a Rachael fan, I'll admit she's accomplished a whole lot in her skating career: National Senior Champion, Olympian.

    But, now she's at Stanford, studying science in a very competitive environment. There's so much to do at college besides skating. She could be doing all that. Instead she's working her tush off for something that is unlikely to happen.

    Enjoy your college years Rachael!

  20. #100

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    I think Rachael is a young woman who deservers only admiration. She has been the go-to girl many times to save the US bacon and her consistency has been such a huge advantage to the US team. She has other priorities now and if she gets beat fair an square - well that's the chance she took in adding full-time school but it also seems like the wisest thing she could have done given her long list of other talents. If she doesn't make it to worlds, I hope she walks away with her head up high and can enjoy the many things she has achieved in skating. She seems a level-headed, lovely girl.
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