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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxRose81 View Post
    Even if she improves for Nats, everything will just degrade after that. I seriously hope Alissa, Mirai and Ashley are prepared to kick butt. I don't want Flatt anywhere near a Worlds team.
    Neither do I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I just beg any of the other skaters like Mirai or Alissa or Ashley to not meltdown and skate the way they can and keep Rachael away from the podium especially a top 2 finish. It's only a little over two years to Sochi and the US doesn't need a holdover like Racheal anywhere near a podium at Nationals.
    I agree but just like Flatt, Nagasu seemed to be slacking off in her training-she did not seem in top or near-top condition during the GPs-and this is coming from a Nagasu-über. I hope Mirai comes to Nationals with her 'A' game. Last year was a little too late when she finally got it together at 4CCs. I'm honestly not too worried about Alissa or Ashley (although on paper Mirai perhaps had slightly better results this past year).
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 01-03-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  2. #62
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    With all due respect to Flatt (I seriously don't mean this as a bash on her) I would also rather 2 other skaters be named to this year's world team. Flatt has lost her consistency and once that happens, there really is nothing left. She'll be buried once again in the standings if USFS picks her again. However, given that huge picture of her in CS, wouldn't be surprised to see her named to the 4CC team no matter how she does at Natls. Send her to 4CC, fine, but NOT to worlds, please!

  3. #63
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    Incorrect.

    Dillon is based in San Jose and Oakland. Lynn Smith's main rink is in Oakland. All coaches in the three Sharks Ice facilities can coach in all three rinks.

    Rachael works with Dillon and Ponomorenko in San Jose and Dillon and Smith in Oakland. Redwood City doesn't play in to her schedule as often as is indicated here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Her principal coaches are Justin Dillon and Lynn Smith, but due to other commitments, they aren't available every day. As a result, she also trains with other coaches, including former U.S. Men's Champion Charles Tickner. The various coaches are at three rinks, in San Jose, Redwood City, and Oakland.



    Hardly.

    Dillon and Smith are based in San Jose. Unless Flatt is driving in the height of rush hour traffic (which I doubt), that's about half an hour away from campus. Redwood City is about fifteen minutes away. Oakland is farther, but how often does she actually go there?

  4. #64
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    Hoping both Mirai and Alissa skate well at the same competition is almost asking too much even if they both make Worlds. Which would mean they would have to do it twice in two months.

  5. #65
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    Many athletes (even Michelle in 1996-97 when she fell twice at nats and stumbled) , for one reason or another, lose their consistency for a period and then regain it. As to whether Flatt will have regained hers by Nats I don't know, but I am assured that being the achiever she is, she will give it one hell of a try. I don't think she has had her "last hurrah" yet. All of the girls though---flatt, alissa, mirai, ashley---need to get with it if they hope for any success at Sochi or, indeed, hope to be on the USA team. Their cycle is coming to a close. Three of them have gone somewhat backwards imo and while Alissa has gone forward (from where she was), she needs to step it up .

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Many athletes (even Michelle in 1996-97 when she fell twice at nats and stumbled) , for one reason or another, lose their consistency for a period and then regain it.
    But many athletes, Michelle in particular, have other qualities to offer besides landing their jumps. So if MK had a few falls/stumbles, the sky wasn't falling. For Rachael, consistency was all she had. Even if she regains it, international judges are not interested.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    For Rachael, consistency was all she had. Even if she regains it, international judges are not interested.
    The harsh reality is...this.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    If it's a club show, I doubt she got paid.
    Probably not. Participating an a few club shows a year is often part of the deal a top skater has with his/her training rink.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvid View Post
    That makes me mad. The skaters who signed up and who didnt get solos even though they have been long time club members had to pay to be in the show. Our money probably went to Rachael if that is how they paid her!
    Well, before you get mad, maybe you should be sure she got paid. Some of us *think* she got paid and some think she got paid only for the shows she's going to do while training in CO but none of us *know*. It's just speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackOnTheIce View Post
    Redwood City doesn't play in to her schedule as often as is indicated here.
    Except no one has said how often she goes to Redwood City.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  10. #70

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    Although I don't want Rachael at this year's Worlds, I still find myself hoping that she sticks with her new coaches for a couple of years, to see if they transform her skating. Old Youtube videos of Rachael in her junior days suggest there could be an "it" factor hiding behind the Tom Zzzzzz influence, if she could improve her speed, posture and spins.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  11. #71
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    No one was paid to skate in shows in my neck of the woods. And what a typically selfish comment from the skating community to begin with. Having any National, World or Olympic skater or skaters in a rink show is an honor (regardless of who it is) and should be treated as such.


    [QUOTE=MacMadame;3422116]Well, before you get mad, maybe you should be sure she got paid. Some of us *think* she got paid and some think she got paid only for the shows she's going to do while training in CO but none of us *know*. It's just speculation.

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    It could be she agreed to do the show for "reduction" in ice costs or other "support" too. Who knows. To me, that is "payment" but it's not direct cash.

  13. #73

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    We really need 3 spots at next year's worlds (and beyond), so I agree that Rachael does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling, no matter how much she improves at this point. However, I give her credit for trying to improve this late in the season, while still going to Stanford.

  14. #74

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    Why is it so important if she got paid?! She isn't the first skater to perform at a club show and she won't be the last. Why it's suddenly an issue is beyond me. If you have a problem with the way your membership fees are being distributed, you'd be better served taking it up with the club.

  15. #75
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    I think the key point is, Rachael has had her shot when it comes to worlds. She's been on the last three world teams and has finished (a respectable) 5th, then 9th and then 12th. Given that she's had such an off year (especially in terms of the judges) I just think the world team should be something other than Rachael Flatt and Skater A, or Rachael Flatt and Skater B, or Rachael Flatt and Skater C.

    Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...maybe leaving Rachael off the team and giving a different skater a chance will give the US different results.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I think the key point is, Rachael has had her shot when it comes to worlds. She's been on the last three world teams and has finished (a respectable) 5th, then 9th and then 12th. Given that she's had such an off year (especially in terms of the judges) I just think the world team should be something other than Rachael Flatt and Skater A, or Rachael Flatt and Skater B, or Rachael Flatt and Skater C.

    Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...maybe leaving Rachael off the team and giving a different skater a chance will give the US different results.
    Skating is a sport. It's not about chances and at this level it's not about opportunities. If someone other than Rachael wants to go to Worlds, then they need to earn their place. I'm not sure why Rachael keeps getting hit over the head with Worlds results when Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner have all had similar results. If we are using Einstein's logic maybe we should leave them all home and go with someone else?

    The Rachael bashing is old and tired. Then again it speaks to how little people think of Wagner, Nagasu and Czisny that everyone is so caught up on Rachael's chances at Nationals. Not exactly high hopes there. I'm not a big Rachael fan, but i respect her determination and ambition. She's not the most talented skater, but she's hard working on the ice and off of it. At this point it's irrelevant to me if she can juggle school and skating. So long as she enjoys doing both, then I say more power to her! If she manages to make it to the World team, then good on her. I'm tired of Rachael being blamed for the state of skating(ladies) in the US. The US ladies have no one but themselves to blame for lost opportunities. JMO

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    I'm not sure why Rachael keeps getting hit over the head with Worlds results when Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner have all had similar results.
    Because Rachael's placement on the team could be considered somewhat controversial last year. Some of us felt Rachael was held up. But fine, Rachael was placed on the team. And then Tibiagate hit. Mirai should have been given a chance to replace Rachael. Whatever the state of Mirai's skating, chances were good it would have faired better than Rachael on a fractured tibia. That's why last World's results are continuously brought up--this is fairly recent history, considering certain posters are still discussing the Nagano 1998 Michelle/Tara thing. I don't expect this to be dropped any time soon if I know this place at all.

    As to Mirai, Ashley and Alissa: we don't know which Mirai and Alissa will show up to Nationals. Hopefully, Alissa's sprain has healed and she can perform. Mirai, who knows? None are juggling elite school and elite skating so they all have to have more time to train and coupled with more natural talent each of the three had been given, it is not unreasonable to expect better results. Knock on wood, that is.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Skating is a sport. It's not about chances and at this level it's not about opportunities. If someone other than Rachael wants to go to Worlds, then they need to earn their place. I'm not sure why Rachael keeps getting hit over the head with Worlds results when Czisny, Nagasu and Wagner have all had similar results. If we are using Einstein's logic maybe we should leave them all home and go with someone else?

    The Rachael bashing is old and tired. Then again it speaks to how little people think of Wagner, Nagasu and Czisny that everyone is so caught up on Rachael's chances at Nationals. Not exactly high hopes there. I'm not a big Rachael fan, but i respect her determination and ambition. She's not the most talented skater, but she's hard working on the ice and off of it. At this point it's irrelevant to me if she can juggle school and skating. So long as she enjoys doing both, then I say more power to her! If she manages to make it to the World team, then good on her. I'm tired of Rachael being blamed for the state of skating(ladies) in the US. The US ladies have no one but themselves to blame for lost opportunities. JMO
    JMO but this tirade would have more impact if it were in the US ladies thread and not one specifically about Rachael. Why must one have to discuss ALL US ladies in a thread specifically about Flatt?

    The bashing may be getting "old" but it speaks to nothing else but how little people think of Flatt. All this talk of "sport" and "earning a place" is rich in context to skating, a subjectively judged sport where results are debated back and forth for decades. Yes, the judges chose Flatt over Mirai in both 2010 and 2011, and both decisions are hotly debated results. So one can take a haughty attitude on a skating discussion board and pretend it's all concrete, like one athlete reached the finish line before the other, but if people want to believe that the judges propped Flatt up at nats over the years, and then got what they deserved by her crappy results at worlds/Olys, then that's their prerogative, new old or otherwise.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Because Rachael's placement on the team could be considered somewhat controversial last year. Some of us felt Rachael was held up. But fine, Rachael was placed on the team. And then Tibiagate hit. Mirai should have been given a chance to replace Rachael. Whatever the state of Mirai's skating, chances were good it would have faired better than Rachael on a fractured tibia. That's why last World's results are continuKiously brought up--this is fairly recent history, considering certain posters are still discussing the Nagano 1998 Michelle/Tara thing. I don't expect this to be dropped any time soon if I know this place at all.
    The Rachael bashing has been happening for years. Way before Nationals or anything that happened at Worlds.

    I'm over the Michelle/Tara wars, but that was an epic skate off. Mirai vs Rachael at Nationals is in comparison. To each his own.

  20. #80
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    I agree, the Flatt bashing was going on LONG before "tibia-gate" or even her controversial 2010 Natls victory.

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