Team competition at Sochi

[Visaliakid]

The World Team Trophy has also acquired the important role of paving the way to the new competition which will be held for the first time in Sochi in 2014. Its rules will be lightly different from the ones of the World Team Trophy and have been summarized by the ISU president Ottavio Ciquanta during a press conference in Nice, during the 2012 World Championships. This is What Cinquanta said:

Ottavio Cinquanta - Nice 2012
“We are ready to introduce the Team Event for the Sochi Olympic Games. It will last three days and it will involve ten different teams from ten different countires. These countries will be chosen according to the performance of their skaters during the 2012/2013 season.

The competitions which will be taken into account will be the World Championships and the Grand Prix series (but not the final), the Four Continents and the European Championships if needed, and the Junior World Championships and Junior Gran Prix if necessary.

The qualified countries will be announced at the end of the next season.

The athletes who will represent their country will be one man, one lady, one pair and one ice dance pair. The skater who will end up first will receive 10 points, the second 9 points, the third 8 points and so on. According to the points gained by each country, the first five teams will qualify for the second part of the competition, the long program. At the end of the competition the first three countries will make the podium, the other teams will receive a diploma (except for the last two teams, which won't receive anything).

The countries who will qualify for the long program will be able to change the skater who will compete in the long program. It is possible to substitute atlhetes for a maximum of two disciplines per team (man or lady, ice dance or pair). If a country which decided to use a substitution wins a medal, both the skaters who did compete for that country will receive the medal.
If in a country only three disciplines qualify for the Team Event, the athlete who didn't qualify will be able to partecipate anyhow.

The Team Event will start on the day prior to the Olympic Opening Ceremony, with the short programs. During the second and third day of the Event the athletes will perform the long programs.

If during the Olympic Games the Team Event will be appreciated, it will be added to the following World Championships.”

[manhn]

The second *and* third day for the long programs?

[kwanfan1818]

I'm really shocked that the ISU would take WTT away from Japan, since Japan doesn't get every Worlds.

[Frau Muller]

A skater/team can be assigned to the team event only if the country hasn't qualified at least one for the individual event through London Worlds or 2013 Nebelhorn. (If it's the host country who hasn't qualified one, the host bye is one person for both the team [if applicable] and individual competitions.)

Lysacek would have to qualify for the Men's event to skate the team event.

The question is what the alternates policy is. I think there are no substitutions after the first official practice. Does anyone know the actual policy? Also, if it's the first official practice, is this for all disciplines or just the applicable discipline? It seems they'd want a provision to replace someone who is injured during the team competition for the individual competition, and, depending on the policy, someone could skate the team competition and then be injured or "injured" and have someone else skate the individual discipline.

Thanks for this info. Hopefully the rules are 'air-tight' enough so that no substitution 'shenanigans' can occur.

I think that Visaliakid provided answers above, i.e., issue with substitutions can occur between the short and long programs of the Team Event but only among skaters already in a country's pool of skaters for the traditional four disciplines. (In other words, Evan would still have to be one of the USA's skaters in the traditional Men's event. With all due respect to Evan, having seen the finals of the Sr Men at US Nationals, I think that the currently-competing US senior men can 'help Team USA' on their own.)

[Cherub721]

It is possible to substitute atlhetes for a maximum of two disciplines per team (man or lady, ice dance or pair).

I wonder if that is to be read as they can't substitute both singles skaters, or both dance and pairs. Guessing it's just not artfully worded.

[gkelly]

I'm really shocked that the ISU would take WTT away from Japan, since Japan doesn't get every Worlds.

Are they necessarily taking WTT away from Japan? Why can't that event continue even with the addition of a team event to the world championships, should such an addition occur?

It's not as though no federations were allowed to hold international ice dance events after ice dancing was added to Worlds in the 1950s.

[patinage]

Here is the actual wording from Qualification Systems for XXII Olympic Winter Games, Sochi 2014:

"The Skaters/Couples competing in the Free Skating must be the same as those having competed in the Short Program/Short Dance, however each Team has the option to replace up to two (2) entries (two Single Skaters or one Single Skater (Lady or Man) plus one couple (Pair Skating or Ice Dance) or both the Pair Skating and Ice Dance Couples) between the Short Program/Short Dance and the Fee [sic] Skating/Free Dance provided such Skaters/Couple is part of the accredited delegation on site of the OWG."

So basically, up to two substitutions from any of the four disciplines.

On a separate topic, I was wondering--will there be minimum scores in place for the Olympics?

[barbk]

I wonder if that is to be read as they can't substitute both singles skaters, or both dance and pairs. Guessing it's just not artfully worded.

The ISU with ambiguous language in the rules? Surely you jest.

[patinage]

I wish the team competition wasn't making its debut at the Olympics. It should have had a test run at Worlds to work out any kinks.

Murphy's law and ISU incompetency make it all too likely that something won't go as planned, some unintended consequence of the rules will rear its ugly head, controversy will ensue, figure skating will be made to look bad on the world stage yet again . . . and that's just me being optimistic.

[IceIceBaby]

Are they necessarily taking WTT away from Japan? Why can't that event continue even with the addition of a team event to the world championships, should such an addition occur?

Yeah, or Japan could come up with something else. They seem to be the most innovative federation.
What is the situation concerning this year's WTT so far, which countries are going?

[morqet]

Yeah, or Japan could come up with something else. They seem to be the most innovative federation.
What is the situation concerning this year's WTT so far, which countries are going?

I think this is the current top 7 teams (6 places available), obviously you'd expect USA/Canada/China to pick up more points after 4 Continents.

RUSSIA: 6,961
USA: 5,008
FRANCE: 4,856
CANADA: 4,436
ITALY: 4,119
GERMANY: 3,237
CHINA: 2,698

JAPAN have 4,750 points, but no pairs team, so are not eligible.

[NMURA]

As far as WTT is concerned, Japan is qualified automatically as a host country. I assume they will manage the 6th place in pairs automatically by just showing up at the arena.

[BigB08822]

I support a team medal, always have, but I do have my worries. What if this only lasts one or two Olympics? Some people will always have inflated medal counts. I know it's not that big of a deal but that bothers me for some reason.

[kwanfan1818]

Are they necessarily taking WTT away from Japan? Why can't that event continue even with the addition of a team event to the world championships, should such an addition occur?

It's not as though no federations were allowed to hold international ice dance events after ice dancing was added to Worlds in the 1950s.

The rules for participation for WTT are more stringent than they are for the Olympic event which, I'm guessing, would be the same for Worlds. I think it would be a hard sell to the Federations to have both a team event at Worlds and WTT with forced participation among the top skaters after Worlds. Right now, it's a team novelty. Not so much a month after Worlds.

[flowerpower]

I support a team medal, always have, but I do have my worries. What if this only lasts one or two Olympics? Some people will always have inflated medal counts. I know it's not that big of a deal but that bothers me for some reason.

I think (maybe) I know what you mean. Right now, an Oly medal in FS is very hard to achieve, and must be done as an individual/partnership competing against the very best in your discipline. With the team event, a broader group of skaters will be able call themselves Olympic FS medalists, some of whom might not have been podium contenders in their own disciplines.

[kwanfan1818]

Should that matter? The weakest gymnast on a gymnastics team is good enough to be necessary for the team. In the final, the last place finisher gets six points for the team. A team medalist without an individual medal doesn't take away from the winner of the all-around.

[flowerpower]

I suppose it depends how much importance people put on having a team Oly FS competition at all - how important it is to claim to be "the best figure skating country". We haven't had that concept in FS before.

If skaters who couldn't contend for the podium in their discipline will be able to say they are Oly figure skating medalists, I think it does devalue the Oly medals. Maybe the World medals will become more prestigious than the Oly ones, within skating circles.

ETA: I recognize that for people knowledgeable about figure skating, an Oly team medal would not represent the same thing as an individual medal, but that distinction may be lost on the broader public and media. And legitimately, all of those people can call themselves Olympic medalists.

[barbk]

If skaters who couldn't contend for the podium in their discipline will be able to say they are Oly figure skating medalists, I think it does devalue the Oly medals. Maybe the World medals will become more prestigious than the Oly ones, within skating circles.

I don't see those who earn an Olympic medal as part of a swimming relay team as devaluing those who win individual medals. Why would this be different?

[manhn]

I barely watch swimming. And gymnastics just sucks. I have no desire to see figure skating become either sport.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

During Kwan's heyday, I remember imagining a team event, but based on discipline. Like every country would be allowed to have 6 skaters in each discipline and they add the top five placements of each team. Maybe 6 would have been too much and five would be better with the top 4 counting. Imagine a team of Kwan, Cohen, Hughes, Nikodinov, McDonough, and Kirk vs. Slutskaya, Butryskaya, Volchkova, Sokolova, Oblasova, and Nelidina vs. Suguri, Onda, Arakawa, Suzuki, Nakano, and Wakamatsu (Ando placed third at 2001-2002 Japanese Championships but was probably too young to compete at those Olympics), etc.

I think the Russian Ice Dance teams and pairs would have dominated the team event if it was separated by discipline. I wonder if skaters would stick around longer or if it bolster participation if there was a team event that allowed skaters more opportunity to vie for a medal. Then it could be like gymnastics where the skaters in the top three, two, or one spot (depending if the ISU used the same qualifying slot procedure as they use now) of the team competition would then qualify for the individual competition.