Team competition at Sochi

[kwanfan1818]

Which means technically a team of a man and a lady would suffice if they are strong enough on their own and can combine together as a strong pairs and/or dance team.

Kerstin Frank and Viktor Pfeiffer better start practicing! It's too bad Kira Korpi is so tall: she'd make a lovely pairs skater. FIN has Dance teams that could be appointed, and, who knows, if Korpi does this well at GP next year, FIN might be the 10th team, since one Korpi = Coomes/Buckland + Jenna McCorkell placement points-wise.

In that situation, can't they have Plushenko skate the men's event, and have a Kovtun skate the men's competition in the team event?

I don't know what the alternate policy is for the Olympics. If a country qualifies one skater for the individual discipline, either through qualifying (London or Nebelhorn) or as Olympic host, appoints one, that skater has to skate both events. Kovtun could be appointed to the Olympic team, with Plushenko as the alternate, and then have a medically approved injury after the team event, leaving Plushenko to skate singles 1. If the team FS isn't after the Men's SP and 2. If the timing for replacements were to work out. (I know the Team Event is supposed to start before the rest of the competition, but I'm not sure when the team FS is in the rest of the schedule.)

Similarly, if Canada doesn't earn a second Ladies spot, Rochette would be in the same boat, were she to want to come back, although I suspect they'd do it the other way around, since Rochette would like to do the team event.

According to the announcement, each country has to declare who will skate the Free "immediately (latest about 10 minutes) after the conclusion of the last Short Program/Short Dance of the Team Event in order to ensure that the Team composition of all Teams are known before the beginning of the Free Skating/Free Dance." (I hope the "conclusion" means after the marks are in place, because if they're skating in reverse order, the results of the presumably strongest/highest ranked skater could make a difference in strategy, and I'd guess the skater's Federation would like to get some feedback on how that skater/team was feeling before committing them to the Free.

[manhn]

I don't know, I do not see why someone like S&S would be at all motivated to compete in the team event. Or a Japanese singles skater when their chance at a medal is quite realistically low. I don't see anyone going all Mirai Nagasu if they end up fourth in the team event.

OTOH, if I were Osmond, I would be all over that team event. While I am not dismissing her chances at landing on the podium come 2014, it's still gonna be a pretty long shot. However, a medal in the team is practically assured.

[kwanfan1818]

S&S might be willing to do the SP to check out the ice and get the nerves out, but it is awfully close to their actual event. The divers at the Olympics had to do three rounds. The winner of the Men's platform event got the last qualifying spot after the first round, and several of them talked about getting the nerves out in the preliminary rounds (2 of them).

Are the same judging panels doing both the team and individual events? If so, it's risky for any skater in contention to do the team event.

[Marco]

OTOH, if I were Osmond, I would be all over that team event. While I am not dismissing her chances at landing on the podium come 2014, it's still gonna be a pretty long shot. However, a medal in the team is practically assured.

Exactly. And this will take the pressure off her for the ladies event and may even boost her PCS as a current Olympic medallist.

The same can also be said about Wagner. Although Wagner has a much better shot at a medal in the ladies event than Osmond, with Kim, Kostner and the Japanese, the odds are still uncertain and it's always great to have another shot at an Olympic medal because who knows if she is staying in for 2018. Same for the Russian lady, whoever that is (hopefully not Leonova - her world medal is hard enough to stomache as it is).

[Jeschke]

I don't know, I do not see why someone like S&S would be at all motivated to compete in the team event.

i remember an enthusiastic ingo steuer, as the team event was decided. but i don´t know what´s in his (their) minds right now. i like the concept of such an event but i don´t like it before the individuals and i wouldn´t like it after the individuals

btw, germanys chances to qualify for the free skates of the best six teams(if s/s skate) are not that unrealistic with z/g. it all depends on liebers and whoever lady will be sent, if they can for one time deliver the right performance at the right time. get dytrt back, she should be good for that

[Domshabfan]

i remember an enthusiastic ingo steuer, as the team event was decided. but i don´t know what´s in his (their) minds right now. i like the concept of such an event but i don´t like it before the individuals and i wouldn´t like it after the individuals

btw, germanys chances to qualify for the free skates of the best six teams(if s/s skate) are not that unrealistic with z/g. it all depends on liebers and whoever lady will be sent, if they can for one time deliver the right performance at the right time. get dytrt back, she should be good for that

Jeschke, it is only 5 teams that proceed to the finals. It will be very hard for Germany to reach the top 5. Russia, Canada and US should reach the finals easily unless some disaster strikes them at teh SP... France has strong team sin the form of Amodio and P/B, pairs are good and Meite will survive the event. Japan can also qualify if they manage to give citizenship to Tran, especially since they are so strong on ladies and men's section, even a dead last performance from Reeds will be enough for them to make it the LP. Otherwise again Italy can make it with Kostner, C/L, and B/H are not bad in pairs as well. Italians main problem is in the men's event. Germany will need a lot of things going their way to make the LP, especially their men and ladies are equally bad.

[Jeschke]

Jeschke, it is only 5 teams that proceed to the finals. It will be very hard for Germany to reach the top 5. Russia, Canada and US should reach the finals easily unless some disaster strikes them at teh SP... France has strong team sin the form of Amodio and P/B, pairs are good and Meite will survive the event. Japan can also qualify if they manage to give citizenship to Tran, especially since they are so strong on ladies and men's section, even a dead last performance from Reeds will be enough for them to make it the LP. Otherwise again Italy can make it with Kostner, C/L, and B/H are not bad in pairs as well. Italians main problem is in the men's event. Germany will need a lot of things going their way to make the LP, especially their men and ladies are equally bad.

my fault, i planned with the 6 as in wtt, forgetting about only 5 teams moving on.
so they´re out 100%. i just would have given germany a small shot for the 6th spot, but top5 will be out of reach. so i hope the germans are sending hausch/wende or vartmann/van cleave in the competition, and not s/s, but let´s see.

[kwanfan1818]

I don't know why the Reeds are slated for dead last, when they've already beaten Coomes/Buckland and Huang/Zheng are are still getting heir competitive legs back after last year's injury. I don't see them beating Zhiganshina/Gazsi, but stranger things have happened.

[manhn]

i remember an enthusiastic ingo steuer, as the team event was decided. but i don´t know what´s in his (their) minds right now. i like the concept of such an event but i don´t like it before the individuals and i wouldn´t like it after the individuals

If I were Steuer, I'd be happy for Russia and hope that V&T skate lights out during the team event, exhausting all their energy by the time of the pairs event.

[starryxskies]

Since you feel it's inappropriate to schedule the team event before the individual/pairs events (and I completely agree) why characterize Moir as "throwing a fit" if he actually speaks up about this, which would potentially benefit all medal contenders?

Relax, I was just pointing it out that he tends to be vocal about these things. Never in my post did I say it was bad if he throws a fit. There are skaters that would be opposed to this and they should rightfully do so. Being passive about it isn't going to change anything.

Withdrawing a skater illegitimately and inserting the better skater for the singles event like mentioned previously would be very fishy and I definitely think the ISU would be all up on that but I mean....with all the politicking, even the far-fetched things can happen. I definitely think Joannie can fend for herself in the ladies, she's still quite in shape and should seriously consider coming back. Hopefully Osmond can get Canada that second spot in London. There would be no one fighting for it with Joannie anyway. But if it comes down to Osmond vs Joannie, I'm all for Joannie.

[maatTheViking]

I was rally impress with Z/G at skate America - since I am quarter German I will rooting for the German team .

I think the team event has great potential as an Olympic event, but the format may need to be tweaked. It will be interesting to see how skaters who do all 4 skates do. Maybe they will be doing singles for the gala...

[Domshabfan]

If I were Steuer, I'd be happy for Russia and hope that V&T skate lights out during the team event, exhausting all their energy by the time of the pairs event.

If russian no.2 pair team is better than US, Japan , Canada and France/Italy's no.1 pair team. Russia can very easily sub V/t with no.2 russian pair team for the LP. At the moment B/L can very beat all of the other teams. Hence this is an option for them. B/L will be happy to skate the 100% for a chance to win gold medal which they are very unlikely to do in pairs

[kwanfan1818]

I love Z/G at Skate America, too.

A potentially big issue for the teams is that in the 2012 ISU Special Regulations document, Rule 400-A-5 was added:

5. To be entered into and participate in the Olympic Winter Games a Competitor/Couple must have reached in an ISU recognized International Competition (as per Article 38, paragraph 7 and Rule 107, paragraphs 1 to 9) during the ongoing or immediately preceding season the applicable minimum Total Technical Score (points) established for the ISU Championships (see Rule 378, paragraph 3).

Rule 378, paragraph 3 states,

3. Minimum Total Technical Scores:
To be entered into and participate in the Senior ISU Championships a Competitor/Couple must have reached in an ISU recognized International Competition (as per Article 38, paragraph 7** and Rule 107, paragraphs 1 to 9*) during the ongoing or immediately preceding season the applicable minimum Total Technical Scores (points). The applicable minimum Total Technical Scores shall be decided for each season by the ISU Council based on a joint proposal from the respective Technical Committee and the Sports Directorate and shall be published in an ISU Communication.

No Minimum Score is required for the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships.

*Rule 107 1-9 lists the valid speed skating events, ISU Championships, Olympic Games, Youth Olympic Games, Grand Prix/Final, World Team Trophy, and defines non-ISU junior and senior International competitions (at least one foreign member invited, entry through members only, at least two members must participate, all the ISU rules apply, TV rights need ISU sign-off).

**Article 38 7 lists where the details are found for each type of competition.

Communication 1742, which announced this year's minimum scores, overrode the preliminary rounds, set different minimums for Worlds vs. Euros/4C's, and overrode the "no minimums for Jr. Worlds" the ISU Constitution document, citing Article 17.1.q (i.e., The-ISU-Council-Can-Do-Whatever-We-Want rule):

In case exceptional circumstances so require and warrant

i) modification of any Rule in the General Regulations, Special Regulations and in Technical Rules;
ii) suspension of applicability of any Rule in the General Regulations, Special Regulations and in Technical Rules;
iii) granting an exception from a requirement specified in any Rule in the General Regulations, Special Regulations and in any Technical Rules in order to prevent unusual hardship.

For the Council to act under this paragraph 1.q) to modify, suspend or grant an exception to any Rule in the General Regulations, Special Regulations and/or any Technical Rules, there must exist "exceptional circumstances" which, for purposes of this paragraph, are circumstances that are unusual, rare and not typical and that make the action of the Council in lieu of the Congress necessary and provide an adequate basis for the Council's action.

In the absence of exceptional circumstances in an emergency situation that require and warrant immediate action by the Council, Members will be provided with fourteen (14) days written notice of any proposed Rule change(s) and the opportunity to provide written comments on proposed Rule change(s) before the Council takes any action under this paragraph 1.q).

For next season's minimum score announcement, they could set the Olympic TES minimums anywhere on the scale, or decide not to impose them. If they want a full field and especially not have mud on their face WRT the new team event, the latter is a distinct possibility, because to get the fields big enough within both the existing qualifying process and TES minimums, the Olympics TES minimums might have to be lower than Worlds TES minimums. If I were the IOC, I'd be shaking my head over that. (Or the Worlds TES minimums would have to be lowered to allow more skaters, which would defeat the purpose of setting them high in the first place.)

If they keep high TES minimums, it's possible that they'll end up with even more teams skating only three disciplines, because where a skater in a discipline didn't qualify, they could only be appointed if they met the minimum TES score rule. Alternately, they could pull a GP-like ruling and say that only individual event participants have to make the minimums, but appointed team members don't.

[manhn]

If russian no.2 pair team is better than US, Japan , Canada and France/Italy's no.1 pair team. Russia can very easily sub V/t with no.2 russian pair team for the LP. At the moment B/L can very beat all of the other teams. Hence this is an option for them. B/L will be happy to skate the 100% for a chance to win gold medal which they are very unlikely to do in pairs

[American/Canadian Team Leader]I completely agree. B&L with all that pressure on them to very beat all of the other teams will very beat all of the other teams. V&T should definitely *not* enter the team event so they can win pairs gold.[/American/Canadian Team Leader]

[Domshabfan]

[American/Canadian Team Leader]I completely agree. B&L with all that pressure on them to very beat all of the other teams will very beat all of the other teams. V&T should definitely *not* enter the team event so they can win pairs gold.[/American/Canadian Team Leader]

They should enter rye team event and share SP. this will be important for Russia since it gives them a chance to build up a leaf over US, Canada and Japan. The aim of Russia should be to put as many teams between them and Canada and US in the SP. then for LP sub V/T with B/L, that is only if B/L still have advantage over rest of the teams still in competition.

[kwanfan1818]

Honestly, unless there is a miracle of sorts on the US team -- i.e. Abbott's on the team, and he skates to his full potential -- or everyone else cracks under pressure, I don't think RUS or CAN has to worry about USA, especially with a healthy Plushenko (assuming he is skating). I can only hope RUS sends a Man who can get in the top 10 to earn two spots in London.

I think RUS and CAN are going to be duking it out for gold and silver.

[screech]

OTOH, if I were Osmond, I would be all over that team event. While I am not dismissing her chances at landing on the podium come 2014, it's still gonna be a pretty long shot. However, a medal in the team is practically assured.

Depending on how Duhamel/Radford fare leading up to the O's (if they've managed to crack the top 3 in majors), they should be all over it too.

But I also think that Canadian pairs would be Canada's best time to use 2 entries. While D/R are a bit closer to cracking the podium, Moore-Towers/Moskovich aren't too far behind them. So splitting it between them could make good sense.

I could also see splitting it upsetting some skaters though. If one team bombs their program and the other goes lights out, it could be really easy to play the blame game.

[PeterG]

But I also think that Canadian pairs would be Canada's best time to use 2 entries. While D/R are a bit closer to cracking the podium, Moore-Towers/Moskovich aren't too far behind them. So splitting it between them could make good sense.

In other events (swimming relays, gymnastics), do countries enter different competitors in different segements so that those individuals also have a chance to get an Olympic medal?

Honestly, unless there is a miracle of sorts on the US team -- i.e. Abbott's on the team, and he skates to his full potential -- or everyone else cracks under pressure, I don't think RUS or CAN has to worry about USA, especially with a healthy Plushenko (assuming he is skating).

I miss 2000 as well.

[kwanfan1818]

In other events (swimming relays, gymnastics), do countries enter different competitors in different segements so that those individuals also have a chance to get an Olympic medal?

Since the SP/SD is a qualifier in the new team event, the answer is: absolutely. In the swimming and track relays, there are more than four on the team, and some team members may swim in the first quali heats , but not in the finals, usually because the star(s) of the team has individual events close or concurrently, and they don't want to wear that person (or people) out. (Once in a while, they perform different roles in the first two heats and then take on another in the final, too, like anchoring the qualis and running second leg in the finals.) They get medals just like the team members that finished 1, 2, or 3. Every once in a while there's a heart-warming story about a champion who insisted that someone take his or her place in one of the early rounds, so that person could get a medal, even though it wouldn't have been a schedule/stamina issue to run or swim in earlier heats.

ETA: Example, in the Men's 4x100 swimming relay in London, the French team in the qualis was Leveaux, Bernard, Lefert, Stravius, and the French team in the finals was Leveaux, Gilot, Lefert, Agnel.

In team gymnastics, specialists are chosen because they are that much better than everyone else in their event, and it's worth putting them on the team, even if there are other better all-around gymnasts.

[AJ Skatefan]

It will be fascinating to see the strategy unfold in this team event.