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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    I would never take figure skating lessons from someone who never figure skated.
    THIS!

    My sister used to be quite good on a regional level and was invited to train with some "professional" coaches together with other talented children.
    There was a coach in ice hockey skates who told them that Russian figure skating technique sucks and who has never figure skated himself. You do the math.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

    Bruce Lee

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Danny Kwan! During the 2001/02 season, he coached "somebody" to a U.S. National title and an Olympic bronze medal. Not shabby.
    She didn't need a coach.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by winterone View Post
    She didn't need a coach.
    Everybody needs one.

    So, Danny Kwan, Suzanne Bonaly, and other parents never were coaches, but it's another kind of relation.

    Me, I need someone who was a good skater as a coach ! lol

    I don't know if Annick Dumont was a skater before. She said she had an injury, but when, at which level ?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    THIS!

    My sister used to be quite good on a regional level and was invited to train with some "professional" coaches together with other talented children.
    There was a coach in ice hockey skates who told them that Russian figure skating technique sucks and who has never figure skated himself. You do the math.
    Your sister took from evy scotvold?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by AYS View Post
    According to his obituary, Gus Lussi at least knew how to skate, but was primarily a ski jumper when young, and was involved in producing and directing ice shows before he started coaching. On a note interesting only to myself , he was born on the exact same day (same date and year) as my grandfather.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...i-1483334.html
    More about him:

    1980 Gus Lussi - Pioneer American Coach
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxNN2XgDLkU
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 12-29-2011 at 07:50 PM. Reason: to add link

  6. #26

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    There are several different functions that coaches can serve. Designing programs to maximize points according to the rules or to convey artistic meanings, and helping skaters to focus mentally, are areas where technical skating expertise is not needed. So a skater, generally one who is already an adult, who already has developed the necessary technical expertise can often do well with support in other areas.

    Such an experienced skater might prefer to have the primary "coach" be someone who focuses on artistry or mental approach. S/he could work with a technical coach as a secondary resource, or use video or other objective feedback to help maintain skills or even improve or learn new variations.

    However, unlike a century ago when skating techniques were first being discovered/invented, the technical level of the sport is now far beyond the level where self-taught skaters could possibly develop enough technical expertise to reach elite competitive levels. I.e., everyone needs a technical coach of some sort to teach them how to execute the necessary skating skills in the first place.

  7. #27
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    Minzhu Li? I had thought she competed at Worlds in the 1980s but now that I look back there doesn't seem to be her name in any of the results. Did she compete at events within China or as a pairs skater?

  8. #28
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    Along the same lines, what do people think of coaches who had been skaters who succeeded at the elite level, compared to those who had more modest success? I wouldn't think it should matter so much, as anyone who had skated to novice or junior level certainly has the technique experience to train others; but other than the name recognition and political factor, would a higher-level success trend towards having more success with coaching skaters? I haven't really paid enough attention to note whether there is any correlation between the success level of the coach and the success level of their skaters...
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  9. #29

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    Not that I am a high-level skater by any means but I think that coaches who once competed at a high level maybe are better at managing that sort of experience. By which I mean, dealing with the federation(s), arranging travel, scheduling the skater so s/he is in their best shape at the competition, and so on.

    But I don't think having competed at a high level necessarily translates into being able to coach at a high level. Some high-level skaters get that way because they have so much natural talent, and someone who "gets" things easily sometimes has trouble as a coach, because they don't know how to explain how to do something to someone who doesn't get it.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  10. #30
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    I agree with overedge, a great skater may not be a great coach. We have a wonderful skater at our rink who would be a terrible coach because everything came easy to her. The things that came easy to me as a skater are the things I have the worst time teaching. To me, a good coach knows how and why an element works and can use that knowledge to pinpoint why an element isn't.

    I took a seminar from Kerry Leitch several years ago and he said that he was never a skater and was able to be successful because of his technical understanding of the elements that he was able to gain. I can teach someone an axel because I understand the jump, but I can't land one myself.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But I don't think having competed at a high level necessarily translates into being able to coach at a high level. Some high-level skaters get that way because they have so much natural talent, and someone who "gets" things easily sometimes has trouble as a coach, because they don't know how to explain how to do something to someone who doesn't get it.
    This so true. I have had a coach who worked his butt off when learning to skate and also made all the mistakes in the world. But it means that he understands in great detail the problems and how to fix them. Which in turn because I am the same, I probably have a better understanding of things and can sometimes work at a different level when trying to explain things myself.

    It is also like judging. You don't have to have achieved a high level in skating but you sure as hell have to be able to analysis what you are looking at, identify the problems and then justify your decisions.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    This so true. I have had a coach who worked his butt off when learning to skate and also made all the mistakes in the world. But it means that he understands in great detail the problems and how to fix them. Which in turn because I am the same, I probably have a better understanding of things and can sometimes work at a different level when trying to explain things myself.

    It is also like judging. You don't have to have achieved a high level in skating but you sure as hell have to be able to analysis what you are looking at, identify the problems and then justify your decisions.
    the very essence of why i brought up this thread--the level of success from coaches who were ex-skaters themselves vs nonskating coaches

  13. #33

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    I also think that good coaches recognise their deficiencies too and don't work on what they don't know or understand. They then guide more the skater's development and progression and recommend directions the skater can take to improve. Edge of Glory talked about Linda Leaver sending Brian Boitano off to different people to work on those things that she felt others could do better.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #34

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    Did Jason Brown's coach ever skate herself? (Kori Ade)

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Did Jason Brown's coach ever skate herself? (Kori Ade)
    I was just wondering the same thing. I remember the manleywoman podcast and my foggy memory says she skated a little but had to learn a lot along the way but I could be wrong

  16. #36

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    Of course, that's a case where Jason's choreographer skated more than his coach did.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurking Skater View Post
    I took a seminar from Kerry Leitch several years ago and he said that he was never a skater and was able to be successful because of his technical understanding of the elements that he was able to gain. I can teach someone an axel because I understand the jump, but I can't land one myself.
    IIRC Kerry Leitch competed at the junior national level in Canada but never placed very well. Did he perhaps mean that he was never an elite skater?
    Last edited by overedge; 12-31-2011 at 03:19 AM.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #38
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    Elena Tcherkasskaia

  19. #39

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    I'm not sure why someone who never skated before would want to be a skating coach. It is not an easy or glamourous job, and you have to work long hours to make any money at it. It is primarily a labor of love.

    I do agree that different levels of skating require different levels of expertise from the coach, and that success as a skater doesn't always guarantee success as a coach. One rink I skated at proudly advertised a former Olympian as a Learn-to-Skate coach. He was
    a disaster. He couldn't remember learning moves such as Mohawks and 3 turns and had no clue how to break them down for beginners. To aggravate matters he had no patience. People complained bitterly about his classes, but new students kept signing up. They thought he had to be the best coach because he had won so many medals.
    Last edited by aliceanne; 01-01-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I'm not sure why someone who never skated before would want to be a skating coach. It is not an easy or glamourous job, and you have to work long hours to make any money at it. It is primarily a labor of love.

    I do agree that different levels of skating require different levels of expertise from the coach, and that success as a skater doesn't always guarantee success as a coach. One rink I skated at proudly advertised a former Olympian as a Learn-to-Skate coach. He was
    a disaster. He couldn't remember learning moves such as Mohawks and 3 turns and had no clue how to break them down for beginners. To aggravate matters he had no patience. People complained bitterly about his classes, but new students kept signing up. They thought he had to be the best coach because he had won so many medals.
    Those nonskating coaches might be aware of their teaching skills/aptitude, and know that they could do better than the former olympians who were successful in skating because of their natural talent but unable to know or be patient enough to teach the sport to newcomers. it's the same with my dad. he's an exceptional electrical engineer on his own, but is never patient enough to pass on his knowledge to younger generations, especially to my brothers who are also electrical engineers aspiring to follow his path.

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