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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But if the wrong calculation has been used for most of the season to date, we don't know that it didn't affect overall standings.
    If I understand correctly (without having time to really look into it), it looks like the error would only make a difference of as much as 0.50 points (and that much only for teams who did a combination lift with +3 GOE). On the Senior GP there don't any other results either in the FD or overall where that change would've made a difference in placement (in the couple of very close results, like Shibs vs. W&P, both did the 2 single lifts and not the combination lift). If someone wants to check all of the Senior Bs, Nationals and National Qualifying events, and JGPs, go ahead. Hopefully it wouldn't make a difference in the overall results.

    However, it could make a small difference in terms of SB scores and it may turn out to make a difference in the order of the SB list, which would be important to look into. It's unfortunate that the mistake occurred, but it seems to have been corrected and now that it is known about hopefully the ISU will take it into account if it affects any team's rankings on the SB list. Hopefully this error will be a lesson for them to check even more carefully that any changes in the scale of values are listed correctly in the future, so another mistake won't be made that will make a difference in an Olympic medal or something.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    It would be a simple matter of once you have changed the particular value in the system that you then it would automatically recalculate the results for each event that this applied to. So it is quite feasible that they haven't found any other problems with other events.

    However many updates do get issued during the year for the software with various adjustments and corrections. So it is not unusual for this to happen.
    Yes but.............really? When you update the system, it is someones job to make sure it is updated. I know it is only figure skating....not an airplane navigational system, but still..............

    And, that aside............why mention it. Really.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  3. #43
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    Looking at the GP only where a change in placements would change a medal or the prize money (placements 1-6), there are four events in which the difference in score is < 1pt. If I understand Doris Pulaski's post, the maximum difference for a two-L4 combo lift with a relatively high GOE is 1.2-1.03, or .17.

    At Skate America, the potential impact was between 5th place Ralph/Hill (131.29) with no combo lift and 6th place Hubbell/Donahoe (131.04) who had one. That's a .23 difference. H/D had GOE of .69, and the re-calculated difference -- again if I understand Doris Pulaski's calculation -- would be less than .17 with a higher GOE before recalculation. If the uplift is the same percentage, than H/D could expect to receive .69/.835, or .82 GOE for the lift at SA, .13 higher and not enough to make up the .23 difference.

    At NHK, the Shibs were .09 ahead of Weaver/Poje, but S/S had a combo lift and W/P didn't, and the Shibs lead should extend slightly. At Skate Canada, W/P were .12 ahead of Capellini/Lanotte, but neither had a combo lift. At RC and TEB, there were no couples in the top six within a point of each other.

    The protocols link has been removed from GPF, at least temporarily.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #44
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    Skaters only have 1 hour following the posting of results to file an official protest. They only way the results would have been changed would be if this was noticed in that time frame, and a protest made.

    Because this was noticed after that time-frame, they are admitting to the error; however, the results will not be changed, nor will they go back and recalculate past scores.

    Thems the rules. (Not saying I agree or disagree with them.)

  5. #45
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    surprise surprise, canadians bitch and guess what --it favors them.
    in other words canadians can cheat, bitch and win.

    no matter what.
    sorry snarky. if they can't accept a loss, and have to favor them than why should i watch and support a sport that as long as you complain even with errors you win.
    too bad us didn't do this for michelle, but because she was american chinese nothing was done. us wanted other skaters.


    look at chan and see how he falls and wins, v/m complains and all of a sudden notices they should win. sorry don't buy it.

    politics why--canadian is 2nd in isu order. politics, cheating as usual. now more blanant and accepted. by canadians , isu, italy , usa and all.

    over 100 years you had time to change and improve, tell your sport is fair.

    ha-what a laugh. you make rules to cheat for the ones you want to win.

    this just tells me the sport will never change, always cheat, always make rules to let the ones they want to win- win. others lose.

    so d/w guess what you have 2nd at worlds. v/m has 1st it is a lock.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erica Lee View Post
    Skaters only have 1 hour following the posting of results to file an official protest. They only way the results would have been changed would be if this was noticed in that time frame, and a protest made.

    Because this was noticed after that time-frame, they are admitting to the error; however, the results will not be changed, nor will they go back and recalculate past scores.

    Thems the rules. (Not saying I agree or disagree with them.)
    The announcement says "The difference of 0.5 points emanating from this calculation error was enough, to result in a switch in the Free Dance ranking of the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2011. " which suggests they are making the change.

    I wonder if this rule would be upheld by Court of Arbitration of Sports, since it was a calculation error based in software they provided, not a judgement or human error, like entering a "5" where the judge meant an "8".
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #47
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    All that happened was someone discovered that the computer wasn't reset to reflect the new rules. D&W are still the GPF champions and there is no clear favourite regarding the FD , whether D&W win by .05 or V&M win by .45 I still see it as a tie.

  8. #48
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    Regardless of other details regarding this situation (the teams, the events, etc.), at the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that there was an error with the software and an element wasn't getting the score it was supposed to. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it being brought up and pointed out that an element was not being scored right by the computer.

    Would it really be better for the whole rest of the season to go on without the software error being fixed?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Regardless of other details regarding this situation (the teams, the events, etc.), at the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that there was an error with the software and an element wasn't getting the score it was supposed to. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it being brought up and pointed out that an element was not being scored right by the computer.

    Would it really be better for the whole rest of the season to go on without the software error being fixed?
    Agree. It would be much worse at Worlds. This is a good thing when the competition between V&M vs D&W and P&B and W&P are so close and in each of the head to heads one team does a combo and the other does not. People should be happy this was discovered and fixed.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    surprise surprise, canadians bitch and guess what --it favors them.
    in other words canadians can cheat, bitch and win.
    I am not now nor have I ever been Canadian. What does this have to do with cheating and/or bitching? If there is a software error, it needs to be sorted out before more competitions are affected. Or should skaters accept that they will continue getting fewer points than they deserve due to a technical glitch?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    surprise surprise, canadians bitch and guess what --it favors them.
    in other words canadians can cheat, bitch and win.
    Cheating? Really?

  12. #52

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    Here's some folks it affected:

    P&B's FD lifetime best was at the GPF, where they did a combo lift. Their score should be slightly higher.

    Samuelson & Gilles's FD lifetime best was at CoC this year, where they did a combo lift. Their score should be slightly higher

    Hubbell & Donahue scored their lifetime best at SA, with a combo lift included.

    And of course, their total scores were affected by the same amount.

    Does anyone know whether the same GOE correction was supposed to be made for lifts with -GOE? If so, teams with combo lifts and -GOE should have scored lower.

    I believe it is correct that if you do not challenge the result of the event in the appropriate window, nothing is supposed to change?

    For me, what would have been an accountant's error in the old days should be no different than any other error ( but the software should be fixed to avoid further errors).

  13. #53
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    Nevermind.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFJ View Post
    Cheating? Really?
    Consider the poster.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #55
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    Called it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    surprise surprise, canadians bitch and guess what --it favors them.
    in other words canadians can cheat, bitch and win.
    Surprise surprise, a mathematical error in the software is revealed that shows V/M earned a higher score and the haters start the bitching.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by query5 View Post
    surprise surprise, canadians bitch and guess what --it favors them.
    in other words canadians can cheat, bitch and win.

    no matter what.
    sorry snarky. .
    Actually, beyond snarky... and completely uncalled for. This is about a technical accounting error when the rules were changed last Summer. The systems were not updated to reflect the new rules. It impacts all ice dancers globally, I suspect, or at least all teams that use combo lifts, and all competitions that use the same software.

    And just to be even more clear, the fact that the software glitch would have given the FD to V/M doesn't address Scott's comment in any way about PCS. This error is reflected on the technical side, not PCS scores. Scott's issue was on the PCS side, and their program being not understood or written off or disregarded by the judges resulting in not getting the PCS points the program was designed to get (a.k.a. a piss off).

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Called it!!!

    Surprise surprise, a mathematical error in the software is revealed that shows V/M earned a higher score and the haters start the bitching.


    I was wondering even if the skaters don't look at the scores that close, why the fans didn't pick up on it? But I guess a one MR-FAN did!

    Great job!!

  18. #58

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    Thanks, Doris!

    Is this a "Field of Play" error? I thought that covered things like a triple being called as a double, but mathematical errors (which is what these seem to be) fall under a different process/timeframe for resolution? (I'm not sure if anything is allowed to be changed once the medals have been awarded.)

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    Wow! I'd e mail that post to the V/M team or PJ Kwong. I think Theatergirl (sp?) also posted about it at the time.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by soxxy View Post
    Wow! I'd e mail that post to the V/M team or PJ Kwong. I think Theatergirl (sp?) also posted about it at the time.
    Maybe they read it here and looked into it further.

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