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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    A poster in the RN thread said that she/he would have had Plushenko behind both Gachinski and Voronov (silver and bronze). Plush apparently lost to both in TES but won on PCS.
    He is not the first who is held up by Pcs over Tes but anyway i can see the Gachinski point but behind Voronov? Voronov wasfar lower on the first day (sp) and unless he has drastically changed since I last saw him live he is not that vivid when skating. I saw his Lp and it was a great comeback, but personally i wished for Bush to make the team.

  2. #42
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    Watching, I'm kinda nonplussed, but okay gotta give Plush props for his hard work, desire, and "cat-like" ability to land those jumps. He's one of the sport's most amazing and consistent jumpers, even despite not having very aesthetically pleasing jumps.

    I perceive Plush trying hard to smooth out the rough edges and make amends for past "transition-less" winning programs. Since Gachinski's bronze medal-winning luster has worn off during the GP season, it provides even more incentive for Plush's comeback. Although perhaps commendable in some respects, I do think it is a tad late for Plush to try and change his skating style (he is definitely another example of a skater whose growth has been stunted). IMO, Plush in his prime did not fully develop his artistic side but rested on his laurels as a jumper and on his rep with the judges. Perhaps it is Plush's love for the sport that fuels him, or hubris, or patriotism, or partly b/c it is hard for him to let go of what defined him and gave him so much in his life. Interesting to recall that in the early days of the sport, champions were often older and competed for many years (but the field of competitors was much smaller too, and the sport was in the early stages of evolving).

    I'd rather see a Matt Savoie comeback than watch Plushy attempting to redeem his 2010 Olympic faux pas. Overall, though, I'd rather see the older veterans competing against each other on a pro circuit rather than pushing themselves to compete again in the eligible ranks.

    I'm feeling a bit chilled by the specter of the "Chan Gang," Putin, and the Russian Mafia leading the cheering sections at Nice in the men's event.

  3. #43

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    I'm so, so happy for Plushy. In his late twenties, injured, and he STILL adds new stuff to his arsenal, and still with those amazing incredible jumps.

    His quads were a little shaky, but I think given time he'll be right back into the swing of things. He even said he'd been planning a 4T-3T in the short program but after his mistake he knew he couldn't make the second jump. I think maybe the same thing happened in the long program.

    I'm not sold on the long, I'm not sure about the music (I love the costume though - it's so typically him). But he does sell it hard. His charisma is unbelievable. And he certainly hit the beat of the music well. It needs some work, but whenever he skates, it will be awesome.

    I LOVE the short program. The music is very...searching for a word...climactic, although that's not quite the feeling I'm looking for. And I really love that costume. Hooray! After so many years, we've finally got a different colour on Plushy! (It's not red, black, gold, or white/silver/grey!) And he really owned that short. It's very frontloaded, of course. But honestly I feel program layouts are suffering because of the footwork requirements. Plushy's footwork in the SP was only a level THREE and it felt like it took up half the program!

    I felt the better skating was in the short program, but I don't see any reason why he couldn't be a real contender at Euros when they get there. If he gets everything sorted in time, he should canter off into the sunset with that. (Gachinsky might argue with him for it. That would be FUN!)

    I think he should ditch the donut part of his camel combination and just go straight to the half-biellman. The half he can get away with with his loss of flexibility. The donut he cannot. It just looks bad. Sorry Plushy boy, you ain't 19 anymore.

    Just for my own interest, here are some "new" elements I saw in his programs (that I hadn't seen before or don't recall seeing in his programs before - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!).

    - "broken leg" position on sit spin - did anyone else notice how fast he spun in this position?
    - "crouch" sit spin (with the leg behind)
    - running threes into butterfly
    - flying sit spin


    That's all I can think of right now. I'll have to watch the programs again.


    Whatever you think of him, it takes mega balls and mega guts to come back at his age, with his injury history, against this competition. Good on him I say!



  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanetB View Post
    Why does Plushenko always look like he is groping himself
    Someone has to do it.
    Just watched the FS, I applaud his working on the things he knew he had to. Personally I actually enjoyed the routine (I have't enjoyed Plush for years). There is still work to go but it was less frenetic than I'm used to seeing from him and the control and poise in all his non jump elements was so much improved. As for the jumps... majority were really well done, absolutely amazing for his age. Very well done. Congratulations to him.
    Last edited by Ozzisk8tr; 12-27-2011 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Watched the FS
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  5. #45
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    I do NOT enjoy him in any way, but I do take my hat off to him.

  6. #46
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    Wow.

    I always preferred others to Evgeni over the years, but I always respected this guy's ability to compete and mental fortitude. To do those jumps, after what he's gone through, and compete like he did with what you'd think would be rust, is impressive.

    While I don't see a big change in his skating, I do appreciate those new elements he's added. And to do those big jumps... yeah, welcome back, Evgeni. The more the merrier.

  7. #47

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    The article that the first poster linked to says he plans to compete at Euros and then have surgery again. . . does he plan to do Worlds?

    I admire his competitive fire but I earnestly hope he's still able to walk in 5 years.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    The article that the first poster linked to says he plans to compete at Euros and then have surgery again. . . does he plan to do Worlds?

    I admire his competitive fire but I earnestly hope he's still able to walk in 5 years.
    Plushy loves to compete. What's the point in being unhappy by not allowing himself do what he loves? Who knows what will happen in 5 years? The present is his.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I'm so, so happy for Plushy. In his late twenties, injured, and he STILL adds new stuff to his arsenal, and still with those amazing incredible jumps.

    His quads were a little shaky, but I think given time he'll be right back into the swing of things. He even said he'd been planning a 4T-3T in the short program but after his mistake he knew he couldn't make the second jump. I think maybe the same thing happened in the long program.

    I'm not sold on the long, I'm not sure about the music (I love the costume though - it's so typically him). But he does sell it hard. His charisma is unbelievable. And he certainly hit the beat of the music well. It needs some work, but whenever he skates, it will be awesome.

    I LOVE the short program. The music is very...searching for a word...climactic, although that's not quite the feeling I'm looking for. And I really love that costume. Hooray! After so many years, we've finally got a different colour on Plushy! (It's not red, black, gold, or white/silver/grey!) And he really owned that short. It's very frontloaded, of course. But honestly I feel program layouts are suffering because of the footwork requirements. Plushy's footwork in the SP was only a level THREE and it felt like it took up half the program!

    I felt the better skating was in the short program, but I don't see any reason why he couldn't be a real contender at Euros when they get there. If he gets everything sorted in time, he should canter off into the sunset with that. (Gachinsky might argue with him for it. That would be FUN!)

    I think he should ditch the donut part of his camel combination and just go straight to the half-biellman. The half he can get away with with his loss of flexibility. The donut he cannot. It just looks bad. Sorry Plushy boy, you ain't 19 anymore.

    Just for my own interest, here are some "new" elements I saw in his programs (that I hadn't seen before or don't recall seeing in his programs before - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!).

    - "broken leg" position on sit spin - did anyone else notice how fast he spun in this position?
    - "crouch" sit spin (with the leg behind)
    - running threes into butterfly
    - flying sit spin


    That's all I can think of right now. I'll have to watch the programs again.


    Whatever you think of him, it takes mega balls and mega guts to come back at his age, with his injury history, against this competition. Good on him I say!



    Welcome back, Plushy! His participation in competitions can only make things more interesting. Loved his programs even if I am not blind to the rough edges, shaky landings etc. I can't agree with the criticism of his donut spin however, it's better than this one, for example
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8G3fo8Lzow and Dai is 4 yrs younger. Even if he's not perfectly in position, Plush doesn't drop his leg to catch the foot.
    and I thought his costumes were really cool.

  10. #50
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    What difference does it make if a skater drops his leg in order to catch the free foot? It's the final sustained stretched position in the catch-foot that will count.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Ok, then please explain to me how, based on the stated criteria, you think that Plushenko deserves 7's or less for SS, PE, and IN.
    Do you see any clear edge in the step sequences ? Do you see any transition into jumps ? He doesn't hold his edges, he doesn't pull his free leg to bend his knee with a good line and deep edge. He doesn't even look comfortable with this inside mohawk (or choctaw, it's so weird, I can't see) during the first step sequence !
    His legs are stiff almost all the time. He has good strokes and crossovers, that why he gains speed.
    But he is still good for 7's, or 7.5's.

    Anyway, I'm a hater. but I'm still impressed with his 3Axels.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Plushy loves to compete. What's the point in being unhappy by not allowing himself to do what he loves? Who knows what will happen in 5 years? The present is his.
    But if it's at the expense of his long-term health......
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Please point me to the PCS in which "polished" is one of the criteria.

    This is what you get with IJS. There is really no measure of the overall impression of the program - the total is the sum of the parts. And based on the criteria for each program component, I really don't see how Plushenko should receive marks of anything less than 8's except for transitions.
    First off, this is a national competition, so I don't argue that his PCS scores should have been lower. But internationally, I would say that they are inflated. In comparison to someone like Chan, I would give Plushenko (for this performance) a SS score of 7.3 and Chan 8.5. I didn't see effortlessness throughout the program in terms of flow and glide. Chan (and Takahashi and Kozuka) are much better.

    For TR, I would give a score of 6.2. There wasn't much variety, the transitions (when there) were relatively east, and the intricacy was non existent.

    For P/E, I would give a 6.5 because there was not much in terms of personal involvement. Being smug does not equate to emotion.

    CH: 6.5 Not much there. Concept was lacking, vision was unclear, though the unity of the choreography was there (see above: smug).

    IN: 6.5. I don't think he 'got' the music.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    The article that the first poster linked to says he plans to compete at Euros and then have surgery again. . . does he plan to do Worlds?

    I admire his competitive fire but I earnestly hope he's still able to walk in 5 years.
    I suspect his surgery is arthroscopy which has a very short recovery time in most instances.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  15. #55

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    What happened to his 3-lutzes? Doubled the first one, stepped out on the second one. I hope his body is strong enough to keep up with his strong mind.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But if it's at the expense of his long-term health......
    It is still his body, his life and his decision. There are no guarantees in life, so it's up to him how he plays it.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    He's never been my cup of tea. But...

    --I think he's part cat. Which seems an unfair advantage.
    I love this comment! Cant stop laughing!

    I prefer Plu without 4-3, with just a 4t, he continues more light for the rest of program.
    Last edited by senorita; 12-27-2011 at 10:33 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Have you read the criteria for PCS? The only category in which Plushenko should receive anything less than 8's or 9's is Transitions.
    Yes, many times, and I think that giving him 7's is generous in all of them, particularly since Skating Skills <> fast.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    It is still his body, his life and his decision. There are no guarantees in life, so it's up to him how he plays it.
    And that doesn't mean we can't express our concerns about his choices.
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Someone has to do it.

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