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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I don't think there is anything wrong with having ideas about how you want your life to go though as long as you are flexible about it when it does happen and don't go all rigid when things don't go as you dreamed when you were 8.
    And as long as it's what you really want, and not what the bridal-industrial complex tells you that you should want.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Heck, I never really even dreamed about the guy unless I had one. I know people who have their weddings all planned out and their dress and the ring and even the guy and some who have only some of that planned out but some of us don't really think about any of that stuff very much until it actually happens to us.
    I had the guy, but he was hard to hold onto , maybe that's why I only concentrated on that aspect. Just getting him to the alter would have been a major accomplishment (and in the end, I didn't, lol!)

    Before high school, I thought boys were totally gross. I was much more into horses and my bike - never, ever thought about my someday dream wedding...
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  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    This is why I think couples should shop for an engagement ring together especially if the guy isn't getting something traditional or a family heirloom.

    Your fiance really needs to listen to you. Right now he sounds invested in his own ideas of what is romantic and is hung up on that. You shouldn't be forced to wear a ring that hurts for any reasons.

    In your married life there will other times when you both have ideas of how things should be that don't match so this is good practice for how to handle them.
    I haven't read the whole thread but I just want to add that I totally agree with this. Note to all the men out there: your wife to be will be wearing her engagement ring every day for the rest of her life. She needs to love it as much as she loves you, and it needs to be comfortable. In other words, she needs to choose it without being made to feel badly if it is not what you would choose. Depending on whether or not your finances are joined, you or both of you should set a budget, but she needs to choose it. If you want to present it to her on bended knee, great, you can pick it up after it has been sized, and present it to her.
    I know I sound totally unromantic, but I have three friends who don't wear their expensive engagement rings because they don't like them and they are uncomfortable. It just seems like such a shame!
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    Pre-engagement (weeks ago when he started making comments on my small hands). "yes dear, I have small fingers, size 6. I can't really wear big jewelery so anything larger than a 1/2 carat solitare would be too big for me". And on my favorites toolbar, right on top of my computer, for 3 months now, I've had three different rings linked. On the toolbar it even says "diamond" and "bridal". I mentioned that to him today, and for all the times the man was on the computer with it staring in his face at the top of the screen...he never clicked on those sites. Other than placing a printed picture right in front of his face, I put out a lot of indicators on my preferences for a ring.
    Congratulations on your engangement.

    I don't have anything to say on the ring itself (in my culture engangement rings are not big; if you use one they are usually wedding-band style and will be moved from one hand to another after the wedding, turning into the wedding band). However, being married for quite a few years, leaving hints like that will NOT WORK ON MOST MEN. It just... doesn't.

    If you want something a certain way - tell it up front.

    good luck with your decision.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I think it's kind of hilarious to read some of these posts scolding woodstock or making such a big deal out of her engagement ring and saying that she should call off the marriage because of it. Er......

    I didn't like my engagement ring. My mom made a snarky comment about it and so did some of my friends, which was kind of embarrassing, to be honest. I got married anyway, because no one told me that not liking the engagement ring was such a bad sign. Life went on. Eventually I forgot all about the engagement period, which lasted only a couple of months anyway, and found other things to dislike, some even more than the engagement ring, many of them about myself. In spite of this, I continue to be married, although our annual review is coming up in February and we WILL be discussing certain failings in our best practices. There is no resting on your laurels in this organization .

    This is one of those situations where the primary person has to make some choices between several things that are important; woodstock has to choose what is MOST important to her and let the rest of it go. It's good practice for marriage; these choices happen a lot, especially in the beginning.
    I think it's that woodstock has been crying about it for days is what made most of us go (or at least it did me), and that the fiance didn't understand how important it was to her and she was having a hard time communicating it that made it even more concerning.

    And frankly, if a friend or relative's VERY FIRST reaction upon getting the news that I was engaged was to sneer at my ring, I'd tell them exactly where to shove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    Wow. I guess I did ask opinions. You know what happened today? One of the nurses at work came by to congratulate me (word spreads fast) and complimented my ring. And she was genuine BOTH in words and facial/body expression. And you know how I felt? Happy Happy Happy! It's all I wanted.

    I think that's really the basis of it. Is the ring me? Not really, he did a major miss. Would I have come to terms with not having a pretty sparkly? Maybe eventually. Can I do so now that people (and especially family) have crapped all over it and its the major reason for reactions to my special moment being tarnished forever? I'm not sure.

    I like to think I am not spoiled and shallow. I cleaned kennels to pay my way through college (working full time and school at night at the ripe old age of 19) and lived lacking many modern amenities as a peace corps volunteer. I don't need a million dollar bling ring. In fact, one of the rings I bookmarked for him to find was a bridal set totalling $900 (wedding band included!). And I don't want a big fancy wedding, I in fact mentioned doing a small city hall thing with a nice lunch with close family and friends after (which HE rejected, and this will be his 2nd marriage and my first!).

    BUT, I want a ring that when I walk in people will see it and know that I am taken. THat I am engaged to a most wonderful man and all you other men don't even dare try to ask me out because someone loves me and the proof is right there on my finger for all to recognize and see.

    I sat for an hour with my family before anybody even noticed this ring. I had to explain what the ring was to just about everybody because absolutely NOBODY has recognized it for what it is meant to represent.

    And to top it all off, I'm getting insulted for this ring. To my face.

    My fiance is a high school teacher. He has the means to afford a 1/2 carat solitare. In fact, it was what I had expected as he HATES shopping. I envisioned him running in the store and picking out the first one he saw that fit the classical term "engagement ring". Had I known he was going to go store to store in search of a butterfly ring (and he told me he bought the first one he found- so he was just thinking "butterfly" and no more specific than that). I would have handed him the printout of the previously linked item to make his life easier and to make sure it was what I would like. (and no, it is not lost on me that he hates shopping and spent hours shopping for this ring. I love him that he did such a thing. But loving him and his intention does not mean I should be forced to love the item it produced)

    I was looking forward to shopping together for bands to fit a solitare (which I could make MY style). Now we will go to the jeweler Thursday and he will find out that his diamond chip and mother of pearl ring will probably cost him well into four figures to mold and specialty design a wedding band to fit it. And then it will not even aesthetically look like a butterfly anymore as it will be altered by the wedding band surrounding it. All for what is probably a $300 fashion butterfly ring.

    As for whiny crying me. I've done most of my crying in private. And really kept my personal opinion low key to not trash his feelings too badly (and honestly, it is a lovely ring. And I would have loved to have gotten this ring...for my birthday). But I did let him know how sad others peoples reactions were making me (which he still has yet to experience). And it makes me sad to think that this happy moment to run around showing my ring and excitement and get "oohs and ahhs" is gone...and won't ever be gotten back. (and even if I get a ring I like better, this moment is still forever gone). And when I explained that to him today it finally set me overboard in front of him. And the minute he saw a tear, I think he FINALLY realized the depth of hurt that I was feeling from people reactions. (because up until then he just kept telling me that other peoples opinions don't matter and to just ignore them). And he said we'll go to the jeweler Thursday and entertain the idea of returning it.
    Whew, at least fiance is accommodating you. That's a good sign!

    And yeah, getting insulted to your face about your ring...see my reply above.

    And yeah, married women get hit on all the time. Some guys just don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    The way I see it, Woodstock and her fiance have at least 2 problems.

    Problem #1: She cares too much what other people think. Granted, she doesn't like the ring either but she should have stood up for it if only because the man she wants to spend the rest of her life with bought it for her.

    Problem #2: Her fiance is too invested in the fantasy of his selecting the perfect ring for her ON HIS OWN.

    Let's start with Problem #1. I would be curious as to what Woodstock's family and friends think of her fiance. Do they have a pattern of putting him down. If so, this could account for their dissing her engagement ring. Woodstock will need to get better at putting them in their place if she plans on marrying this man.

    Moving onto Problem #2. Several questions occur to me: Is Woodstock's fiance more in love with his fantasy version of their relationship than he is in love with her? Does he take constructive criticism well or is he normally defensive? Do her family and friends like her fiance? Do they think he is the right man for her? Etc.
    #1 is most concerning to me, IMO. I mean, not everyone has to be in love with your future husband, but putting down the ring in such a rude fashion is their way of letting their feelings about him known. And unless you want to be a hermit, you'll have to face them time and again. You have to be ready to stand by him in such scenarios.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I think if receiving a very specific gift is *that* important to someone, they should just say they want X. It just saves a lot of time and emotional energy.

    I've just found being open and direct about one's needs and wants tends to save a lot of drama down the road
    ITA.

    I asked Mr. Japanfan about this issue and thought his answer was insightful: "The ring isn't the issue, the issue is the fact that the ring is an issue".

    To me it looks like there is a lack of honest and open communication between Woodstock and her fiance, staring with expecting him to get hints (which as others have said, men often don't). And that could be a problem in future. When you (Woodstock) said you wanted to beat the salesperson who sold the the ring and then said that finally getting approval from one person was "all you wanted", it was troubling in that the emotions seemed to extend far beyond the issue of the ring being not what you wanted.

    Also, too much reliance on the approval of others could be a problem. Your family is being quite insensitive, and could continue to be so about him and things he does in future. Be assured he will do things that hurt and anger you when you are married. How will you handle that and what will you expect from family and friends? If they disapprove of him but no one tells him, won't it be a repeat of this situation?

    Both of you have valid feelings, although - as this thread has shown - people can judge you both as behaving inappropriately. But people have the feelings they have, for whatever reasons. Again, the primary issue is the lack of honest communication. If he has to spend four figures on repairing the ring and really can't afford it, is that the best solution? Might it make him angry, in which case you both start the marriage with a major resentment already in your gunny sack?

    I hope you can work this through. It looks to be a relationship test of sorts and those always happen sooner or later. In my experience of being married for 18 years those tests have taught me the importance of acceptance, compromise and negotiation. Also to adjust my expectations of my husband and on occasion, to take a hard look at my own emotional baggage. Most of the time you can't change your partner, although many of us give it our best shot anyway.

    And like others have said, romantic notions are often myths. Spouses will disappoint and anger each other, it's unavoidable. No one person can fulfill our your needs perfectly and marriage is not a fantasy.

    To give my own example, Mr. Japanfan forgot my birthday several years in a row and I was incredibly hurt by it. That's just how he is - he forgets people's birthdays and would probably forget him own if I didn't tell him.

    A good friend told me that I should let it go, tell him when my birthday was and make plans. Finally, I realized that he was right. I was able to identify feelings beyond his actually forgetting and came to terms with it. It actually became amusing once I let the old emotions go. Then, he surprised me by remembering his this past year.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    look at it from the other angle - woodstock a) accepted a marriage proposal that was accompanied by a ring. She said yes to the proposal, and apparently said yes to the ring ... So yeah, woodstock is treating this just as crappily as everybody else,
    This seems unduly harsh to me.
    She was clearly surprised, and caught off guard by both ring and proposal.
    Was she really supposed to have the presence of mind to say "Yes, I will marry you; but I won't wear that ring"?
    Really?
    Cause' that just doesn't seem realistic to me.

    And I don't get the impression that other people's opinions are having undue influence here. It seems to me that Woodstock originally thought that that the ring was ugly; but, for whatever reason, she didn't have the confidence to object to it until other people weighed in with a similar reaction.
    Lacking a photo, she is offering up other people's reactions as proof that the ring is, in fact, awful - validation, as it were

    Yes, a perfect person would always trust their own reactions, and never need to have their thoughts and feeling validated. I, myself, have yet to meet such a person

    I was married for many years before I got my diamonds. My husband decided to surprise me with a stone that I wasn't crazy about. We talked about it, and had the jeweler swap the stone that I didn't care for.
    I handled it as tactfully as I could - but I sure as hell wasn't going to wear 9k ring that wasn't to my liking. Sure, his feeling were hurt at first. But he got over that in about at hour, and now I pick out my own jewelry.
    Actually, he gets a big kick out of telling the story - always gets a chuckle out of other old married couples

    I agree that hitting dude up with other people's reactions was a tactical error. He is clearly feeling very defensive at this point. Not sure what to do about this. Is it possible that his mother could be of some assistance here? A sister?

    I've worked in Jewelry. No, it isn't likely that this ring can be returned, especially if it has been worn.

    BTW: Woodstock's situation, or mine for that matter, are not that unusual. You wouldn't believe some of the shit that goes down in jewelry stores, even high-end stores.

    My 10 cents: No one should have to wear a ring that they dislike every day. This isn't a Christmas gift, it is something that W is supposed to wear every day for the rest of her life. No one should be told to "just be grateful" in such a circumstance. An engagement is more than a man marking his territory. The ring should reflect more than *his* personal statement!

  8. #128

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    TygerTyger - woodstock clearly doesn't find the ring ugly, she posted previously that she would have loved to have received it for her birthday, but she doesn't see it as a suitable engagement ring (see post 102, where she comments on how she thinks it only cost $300 and it looks like fashion jewellery).

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    No, they don't.
    I know, right? I'm 18, and my sister (16) often assumes that, since she's got her wedding planned to the napkin ring color, that I, too, must have done this much planning.

    I've never even been kissed, ok? Baby steps.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread but I just want to add that I totally agree with this. Note to all the men out there: your wife to be will be wearing her engagement ring every day for the rest of her life. She needs to love it as much as she loves you, and it needs to be comfortable.
    Not all wives will wear their engagement rings every day for the rest of their lives. Not all women even want an engagement ring, some don't care that much about it. And some don't even like diamonds - we haven't all been brainwashed by De Beers.

    And I can't imagine loving a ring as much as I love a person.

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    I bet Woodstock is sorry she asked for our "advice" . There have been some very strong opinions here. Many questioning whether or not either are ready for marriage. Yes, men can be oblivious to "clues" and are not always good at picking up on their girlfriend's, wives taste. My husband has bought me jewelry, in the past. He likes more chunky things. I like more delicate things. I have returned some of his choices. Now, I go out and pre-shop a few choices. I give him a business card and the item # of the choices and let him pick one. This way, he does get some input and I get something I really want.

    I can understand that Woodstock wants a more traditional engagement ring. And as I said before, she has to wear it, she should love it and she should be comfortable wearing it (it should not hurt her finger). I, really, don't think this is such a big deal. He did something sweet, by trying to find something with butterflies. Unfortunately, he missed the mark by buying the first one he found. I don't think that Woodstock should care about what others think, but I do think that fiancee should care that Woodstock hoped for a traditional ring and she is not happy with the one he picked. There is not right or wrong here, just a difference in taste. It happens. It doesn't mean they are not both wonderful people and wonderful for each other. I also think that the fiancee would want her to wear and enjoy whatever ring he got her. I don't think he would stubbornly make her keep a ring she won't wear or enjoy. What would be the point of that? I also don't think that Woodstock should feel that her excitedly showing off her traditional engagement sign moment is gone. The most important thing is that she's met someone she loves and who loves her back, and that she should be happy with her ring.

    TygerTyger is right, they may not take it back if it's been worn. However they might, especially if they chose a ring that is a little more expensive. Most jewelry stores understand that a gift purchase is more likely to be returned, and are more flexible. As long as it is returned within a reasonable time frame.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Note to all the men out there: your wife to be will be wearing her engagement ring every day for the rest of her life. She needs to love it as much as she loves you
    Er, not quite. Loving a piece of jewelry as much as you love your spouse probably doesn't bode well for the marriage.
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  13. #133
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    I agree that most men don't get hints--if I want my husband to buy me jewelry, I tell him and provide some options. If I really want one particular piece, I just email him a link. Not as romantic, but it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veronika View Post
    I agree that most men don't get hints--if I want my husband to buy me jewelry, I tell him and provide some options. If I really want one particular piece, I just email him a link. Not as romantic, but it works.
    I don't think it's less romantic. He wants to please you, that is more romantic than giving something that the other person may not enjoy and won't wear. The whole point of giving a gift is to make someone happy. If everyone liked everything they ever got, nothing would ever be returned. I think you're doing your husband a favor, you're making his shopping easier and you're guaranteeing him that you'll enjoy his effort.

    Wyliefan, I agree that you should not love a piece of jewelry as much as your spouse. However, the engagement ring is a symbol. It symbolizes your commitment. And, though you should not love it as much as your fiancee, it should make you feel special. Woodstock's fiancee's heart was in the right place, he just picked the wrong ring. I'm sure he wants Woodstock to look at that ring every day and smile, not frown.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    However, the engagement ring is a symbol. It symbolizes your commitment.
    I agree that an engagement ring is a symbol, but like all symbols, it means different things to different people and thus is interpreted in different ways.

    For some people, the ring symbolizes commitment; it's a romantic thing. For others, it's an overt display of wealth or class; for still others, it's all about ownership and possession and marking your mate. Sometimes it's a symbol of making your fiancee part of your family. And so on.

    I no longer wear my rings and haven't for a long time. People who take an interest in such things as other people's rings read all kinds of significance into this. But the reason I no longer wear my rings is that I developed an allergy to gold several years ago and wearing the rings gives me hives. When it came down to it, the rings were just rings.

    C'est la vie. But I hope woodstock realizes that when people make pronouncements about what this all means about her, her fiance and everything else, they are really telling her what an engagement ring means to them. I hope she isn't taking things said here too much to heart, because woodstock, most of this really isn't about you, even if it seems that way.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    The owner of my company gave one of the girls I work with some very good advice on helping her husband with a jewelry purchase. She said that she told her husband that she wanted a silver chain necklace for her birthday, but he seemed to be dragging his feet on going out and getting something. The owner said that there's too much to consider when buying jewelry and he's learned over the years that it's best to take his wife shopping and see the type of things that she likes. He later goes back and buys one of the things she liked. Smart man, but I suspect he learned his lesson when he was younger. I also believe he's much more in tune to his wife's feelings than some men are to their wives, so there's that, too.

    I've never been one to care about engagement rings and other such bling. I'm hard on jewelry and usually wind up breaking or losing it. However, I am not everyone else and I think Woodstock should do whatever will make her happy. Just be honest and upfront. That's the best you can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I agree that an engagement ring is a symbol, but like all symbols, it means different things to different people and thus is interpreted in different ways.

    For some people, the ring symbolizes commitment; it's a romantic thing. For others, it's an overt display of wealth or class; for still others, it's all about ownership and possession and marking your mate. Sometimes it's a symbol of making your fiancee part of your family. And so on.

    I no longer wear my rings and haven't for a long time. People who take an interest in such things as other people's rings read all kinds of significance into this. But the reason I no longer wear my rings is that I developed an allergy to gold several years ago and wearing the rings gives me hives. When it came down to it, the rings were just rings.

    C'est la vie. But I hope woodstock realizes that when people make pronouncements about what this all means about her, her fiance and everything else, they are really telling her what an engagement ring means to them. I hope she isn't taking things said here too much to heart, because woodstock, most of this really isn't about you, even if it seems that way.
    Well said.

    Poor woodstock not only got lots of opinions from her family, she's getting them here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I agree that an engagement ring is a symbol, but like all symbols, it means different things to different people and thus is interpreted in different ways.

    For some people, the ring symbolizes commitment; it's a romantic thing. For others, it's an overt display of wealth or class; for still others, it's all about ownership and possession and marking your mate. Sometimes it's a symbol of making your fiancee part of your family. And so on.

    I no longer wear my rings and haven't for a long time. People who take an interest in such things as other people's rings read all kinds of significance into this. But the reason I no longer wear my rings is that I developed an allergy to gold several years ago and wearing the rings gives me hives. When it came down to it, the rings were just rings.

    C'est la vie. But I hope woodstock realizes that when people make pronouncements about what this all means about her, her fiance and everything else, they are really telling her what an engagement ring means to them. I hope she isn't taking things said here too much to heart, because woodstock, most of this really isn't about you, even if it seems that way.
    Truest statement in this thread. I'm definitely bringing my own opinions into my advice - I've never bought into the wedding industry complex and get a little angry when other people get catty and judgmental over that. It still sucks that woodstock's family and friends made her feel bad about the ring.

    What's most important though is that woodstock is honest with her fiance about her feelings, and it seems like she has. Everything else can be dealt with as it comes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    The owner of my company gave one of the girls I work with some very good advice on helping her husband with a jewelry purchase. She said that she told her husband that she wanted a silver chain necklace for her birthday, but he seemed to be dragging his feet on going out and getting something. The owner said that there's too much to consider when buying jewelry and he's learned over the years that it's best to take his wife shopping and see the type of things that she likes. He later goes back and buys one of the things she liked. Smart man, but I suspect he learned his lesson when he was younger. I also believe he's much more in tune to his wife's feelings than some men are to their wives, so there's that, too.
    I collect Trollbeads, and someone at one of the stores where I buy them said that husbands absolutely love them. A wife can leave a wish list of beads at the store and the husband can go in and ask to see it, buy a couple of beads off the list, and he's done.
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    Woodstock - if you want to take a break from all this and get a few laughs, here's a story about an engagement ring that was stuck in a toilet for decades.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-toilet.html
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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