The half-ass layback position

[floskate]

Sasha's is beautiful but Dorothy's is still better. Far more difficult to maintain such a great position and spin so quickly For all that preparation, I always expected Sasha's layback to have a bit more power to enhance the position even more.

[gkelly]

So has the discussion moved on from the half-ass layback position and is now focused on who had the best full-ass layback position?

Technically I suppose a half-ass one would probably qualify as a sideways-leaning spin

[Macassar88]

So has the discussion moved on from the half-ass layback position and is now focused on who had the best full-ass layback position?

Technically I suppose a half-ass one would probably qualify as a sideways-leaning spin

Tuktamisheva...

[DarrellH]

There are also those that get so little arch to the back that it becomes more of a "Lay-neck" spin.

[briancoogaert]

There are also those that get so little arch to the back that it becomes more of a "Lay-neck" spin.

Do you mean Laetitia Hubert in her latest years ?
(I love her)

[DBZ]

There are also those that get so little arch to the back that it becomes more of a "Lay-neck" spin.

That reminds me of this layback from Maria Butyrskaya:

2000 Worlds

Just god-awful position with no stretch whatsoever.

[ainouta]

That reminds me of this layback from Maria Butyrskaya:

2000 Worlds

Just god-awful position with no stretch whatsoever.

I would argue this doesn't even lay-neck much:
http://youtu.be/Jniy2CbyaAA?t=52s
Her students nowadays all have good back bend though!

[CantALoop]

I feel silly for saying this, but I always liked Katarina Witt's layback and the way she got into the position with her arms. It as was though she was opening up like a flower or something.

I agree that Katarina had a great layback - lovely position of her arms and free leg.

[David21]

http://youtu.be/ywSCdwT0hxw?t=3m13s
Slutskaya had a nice one when she put her mind to it

Slutskaya always had a "gorgeous layback".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3jud...eature=related

[gkelly]

Slutskaya always had a "gorgeous layback".

But she didn't always have a "classic layback" since she sometimes chose to do a twisted and/or haircutter position . . . before IJS when doing so was relatively unusual, and of course afterward, with Biellmanns added, to gain levels.

[Macassar88]

But she didn't always have a "classic layback" since she sometimes chose to do a twisted and/or haircutter position . . . before IJS when doing so was relatively unusual, and of course afterward, with Biellmanns added, to gain levels.

Were there any other skaters who did different layback positions in their layback spins pre IJS?
And I loved her haircutter spin because she got so much speed on it.

[gkelly]

Were there any other skaters who did different layback positions in their layback spins pre IJS?

Absolutely. Sometimes from extra flexibility and creativity, sometimes from lack of flexibility and the need to find another way to meet the short program requirement -- leading purists to lament the half-assedness of their positions.

The haircutter has been around, though not as common as it is now, at least since the 1970s or earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZxL4unUlmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtKaKS0A_lg 1:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6zKfZVurJYt 1:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bElDo6C2Dt4 3:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYB9OInQYLc 1:45 (we wondered whether some judges would consider the backspin as not fulfilling the standard SP layback requirement)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Ikxi6Zx4A 0:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x95R_2ztQfs 1:43

[falling_dance]

In her last two short programs as an amateur, Kristi Yamaguchi would hold the blade during the last three revolutions in the layback position.

ETA: Surya Bonaly's 1992 Olympic SP featured a haircutter layback.

[Ozzisk8tr]

Not really a layback but Jason Brown has that amazing back spin layback thing holding his free leg. Love seeing variations when they are done well.

[floskate]

Uschi Kesler did a great haircutter as far back as 1965.

ETA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8vqOnTfM#t=99s

[briancoogaert]

I would argue this doesn't even lay-neck much:
http://youtu.be/Jniy2CbyaAA?t=52s
Her students nowadays all have good back bend though!

I liked Volchkova, as she impressed me with her very high jumps. But I've never noticed her layback was so bad !

[kwanatic]

I do think that the Americans tend to have the best laybacks. If you look at the current field of ladies internationally, I say the US has the top 1 and 2 spinners...

In terms of speed, I'd put Alissa first. Alissa's first position is lovely (back position and turn out) but she only holds it for 3 revs before switching. Her other positions aren't super fantastic but they are good. The reason her spins are so amazing is the speed and centering she carries throughout them, particularly her ending Biellmann which loses no speed.

In terms of difficultly and positions, I'd put Mirai first though I do wish she'd turn her foot out more, like here (which proves she can, she just doesn't). The arch in her back is extreme and she's able to hit distinct positions few others can attain to that degree. Also she maintains speed and centering plus she's able to transition up into a Biellmann without standing up first.

I still think Caroline Zhang's classic layback position was incredible. Her layback spin back in 2007 was WOW! I'd never seen anything like that before. She's lost some of her speed and flexibility but her classic position is still lovely.

In terms of half-assed, butt fugly spins, I think the award goes to the Russian girls. Of all of the ones I've seen, only Makarova has an acceptable combination of turned out leg and back position. Several of the girls have good back positions but that harshly angled leg irks me.

By far, Elizaveta's is the worst. There is no layback; not even a lean or tilt back...it's like a head twist. The positions are fugly and it travels all over the place. Though it is a matter of preference, I'd give that spin a -1 or -2 every time...it's an eyesore to me!

Adelina's has gotten better this year. She does the lean/angled leg thing too, but at least she ends hers nicely. Last year, she had a weak Biellmann; this year, rather than trying to do a full two-handed Biellmann, she just pulls the leg up. She has gorgeous extension so that final position looks 10x better than trying to do a half-assed Biellmann.

Mao has the flexibility to do a beautiful layback, but opts out of it most of the time. I did like this version she had when she was with TAT. She's another one with gorgeous lean in her back.

I was never a fan of Yu-Na's layback, though her lovely back position and speed helped me to overlook her sometimes distracting arms and her foot hanging down. I love Yu-Na to death but she's never had pretty feet in her skating; from the waist up, her lines are glorious but from the waist down, she's mediocre at best.

I'm not much a fan of Akiko's layback spin BUT I do appreciate the speed she carries and the unique variation of switching to an inside edge.

In terms of a spin I really wish someone would do, I'd love to see this done now. Nathaiel Krieg was an incredible spinner. You'd need someone with a really flexible back and good extension, but it could be done. I think Mirai should give it a go, seeing as she can literally put her head on her butt.

[arakwafan2006]

Her free leg might not be parallel but if you cant bend your back into that position, this is VERY acceptable.

http://youtu.be/v_Ikxi6Zx4A?t=30s

[pollyanna]

The haircutter has been around, though not as common as it is now, at least since the 1970s or earlier.

Tiffany Chin in 1984

[bartek]

This is another one with great arch in the back although her free leg is not up to a level of Sasha or Angela. It's Shizuka Arakawa.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E7wsD9Iw-s&t=3m37s

Btw, look at the 3Lz+3T she did at the begining. Yu-Na Kim wouldn't be ashamed of that. I'm thinking of doing a video with all those gorgeous laybacks.