Some questions about judging

[Vash01]

Just to be clear, I have a few general questions, to get a better understanding of the system and not to stir the pot again (although it's tough to completely avoid that ).

1.Do the different feds discuss the judges marks after the competition, either individually (as a fed) or a in a group of judges, and give feedback to the ISU about the judging?

2.Are some judges asked to explain their low or high marks that appear out of line or plain unreasonable? Ex: Takahashi's PCS being 5.5 or in the 6's for his LP. I know in the 6.0 system if one judge gave 5.5 while others gave 5.8-5.9 to a skater, he/she had to explain why.

3.It seems the skaters are confused sometimes by the marks they got, especially the levels, judging from some of Trankov's comments. Do they get satisfactory explanations from the ISU (may be from the referee?)

4.Have any complaints been filed by any fed against the judging, since the COP has been in place (let us say since 2006, since it was the first time it was used in the Olympics; prior to that was more of a trial)

5.What happens if a complaint is filed? Is the ISU required to address it? I know they cannot change the results of a competition (with the exception of the 2002 OGM, but I am not addressing anything that took place before the COP came in place).

[Vagabond]

1.Do the different feds discuss the judges marks after the competition, either individually (as a fed) or a in a group of judges, and give feedback to the ISU about the judging?

The very judges who worked at the competition do:

Rule 411:

1. After each discipline, the Technical Controller and the Referee will moderate a "Round Table Discussion" with the Judges on the panel. In the discussion the general quality of skating and the range of points for elements and each of the Program Components of selected Skaters will be discussed. The purpose of the discussion is to reach a consensus to assist the Officials for future judging guidelines. The Round Table Discussion will not establish an acceptable range of scores. This will be established by the Officials Assessment Commission in accordance with the procedure established by the ISU Council.

2. During the discussion the Judges will be encouraged to express their opinions. The discussion will not be used to criticize individuals judging the discipline in question. The discussion will result in a summary of the timing and handling of the judging in the event, possible improvements to the equipment, the print-outs for the Judges and the flow of information both internally and externally.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

2.Are some judges asked to explain their low or high marks that appear out of line or plain unreasonable? Ex: Takahashi's PCS being 5.5 or in the 6's for his LP. I know in the 6.0 system if one judge gave 5.5 while others gave 5.8-5.9 to a skater, he/she had to explain why.

Yes, but not immediately afterwards:

For example, Rule 430(1)(d):

The OAC shall prepare a report for each competition including all identified cases of serious errors by the Judges of the respective competition. The report for each competition shall be made available without delay to the respective Technical Committee. The respective Technical Committee shall proceed with its evaluation of the OAC reports and immediate subsequent report to the Sports Directorate as soon as possible in line with the applicable Rules for “Assessment”. If the Technical Committee disagrees on any determination of serious errors, the OAC must be consulted. If a disagreement prevails, the unresolved cases will be finally decided by the Sports Directorate.

The OAC shall prepare a report for each competition including all identified cases of serious errors by the Judges of the respective competition. The report for each competition shall be made available without delay to the respective Technical Committee. The respective Technical Committee shall proceed with its evaluation of the OAC reports and immediate subsequent report to the Sports Directorate as soon as possible in line with the applicable Rules for “Assessment”. If the Technical Committee disagrees on any determination of serious errors, the OAC must be consulted. If a disagreement prevails, the unresolved cases will be finally decided by the Sports Directorate.

Remember, the outlying scores are trimmed, so one questionable mark for, say, a combination spin or one skater's transitions probably won't attract that much attention, but a pattern of, say, ignoring incorrect edges on flips and lutzes probably would do so.

[Vash01]

Thanks Vagabond for the detailed answers/explanations. It seems that the COP does not challenge the individual judges much, the way the 6.0 did (like right after the competition). If they have to wait for a report to come out, a lot of the material would be erased from their minds, and it will be hard to explain accurately. I thought the referee would question any out of line scores immediately but that does not seem to be the case.

[Sylvia]

There are always "Judges Round Table Discussions" led by the respective event referees after each event at ISU competitions.

[julieann]

3.It seems the skaters are confused sometimes by the marks they got, especially the levels, judging from some of Trankov's comments. Do they get satisfactory explanations from the ISU (may be from the referee?)

I think some skaters mis-interpret being confused with being unhappy and just was justification more than clarification.