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  1. #21
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    Ah, Proustable, but again I think Chan needs to be clearer what he means. It seems pretty much that he says a lot of things without thinking. Lots of things would not have been required in China for his parents to "sacrifice," but you can be sure a whole lot of other things would have been required for him and his parents to "sacrifice." Chan needs to read, The Second Mark (section on Shen and Zhao), and Lucinda Ruh's Frozen Teardrop. He also needs to speak with Chen Lu and other retired former Chinese figure skaters about the "sacrifices" required of them and their parents by the Chinese federation, not to mention the Chinese government.

  2. #22
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    ^^^This. He cannot be wholly unaware of the life and sacrifices of Chinese elite athletes.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I think Chan needs to be clearer what he means.
    What was unclear?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpower View Post
    I was just commenting on the fact that N.A. skaters are criticized for being politically correct, yet also criticized when they're not politically correct. Skaters from some other countries are applauded for being blunt.
    No, it's only successful NA skaters who are criticized that way. If any skater wins a lot, every word is scrutenized. And when that skater is also a NA, it's worse, they can do no right.

  5. #25
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    lol, patrick should know that those chinese athletes don't even get the chance to study or go to school. People would jump out and say oh they do study. but it's very different from the normal school system. It's more like they're taught how to do the basic reading. The athletes have no life but train.

    A lot of people think China's all great now, but that's only from the outside. There's a reason why more and more people are still emigrating out of China. Patrick needs to really know more to make these assertive comments.

    Also, Patrick might feel that Chinese people treat him really well from the shows or competitions he's done there. But he forgot people are treating him like that because he's FROM Canada.

  6. #26

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    From the Globe and Mail response article:
    A Skate Canada official said the interview was conducted earlier this fall, shortly after Chan had returned form China. The remarks were “a stream of consciousness” about his feelings about his Chinese heritage and not meant to reflect on his Canadian ties, said the official, who was not authorized to be quoted in the media.

    Chan was en route to Canada Wednesday evening to compete in the 2011 ISU Grand Prix of figure skating final at ExpoCité in Quebec City and was unavailable for comment.
    To be continued...

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    ^^^This. He cannot be wholly unaware of the life and sacrifices of Chinese elite athletes.
    I think there are absolutely benefits to a sports system and drawbacks. But I read about the Chinese fed making Shen/Zhao a married couple live in dorms apart from each other yes, and think its just ridiculous. Even the Soviets didn't go that far. Although of course my understanding of the situation could be wrong.

    This being said in general, Patrick wouldn't be Patrick without the Canadian system. Its not like the Chinese system has tons of great coaches to provide Patrick. While they are starting to do well with some talented juniors, they are really just trying to build their system.. He was taught after all as a child by a legendary Canadian coach.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    What was unclear?

    Ha ha, agalisgv! In this case, I'm referring to Chan's unthinking comments about his parents likely not having to "sacrifice" in China what they "sacrificed" for his skating in Canada. Actually, once again, it seems Chan is a bit confused in his thinking, but that often happens to young adults who are still maturing and gaining a broader perspective.

    What's more "confusing and unclear" to me (need I say ) are the scores Chan often receives.

    ETA:
    Thanks for the additional news item Sylvia, indicating when the "stream of consciousness" remarks were made (great spin way of putting it). Wonder why it is only now coming out -- the press cycle for the publication?

    ITA bek, and Yukari Lepisto.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 12-08-2011 at 05:19 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    This being said in general, Patrick wouldn't be Patrick without the Canadian system. Its not like the Chinese system has tons of great coaches to provide Patrick. While they are starting to do well with some talented juniors, they are really just trying to build their system.. He was taught after all as a child by a legendary Canadian coach.
    Exactly. He got to where he is now because he's born in Canada. His parents are from Canton, China, which is the southern china. There is exactly ZERO chinese figure skaters in the national team that's from the southern part of China until today. If he's born in China, his parents would not even think about having him learn figure skating, because it's just not even part of the option until recent years. there's simply no ice there. that's why s/z wanted to open up a rink in the southern part of china.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Ha ha, agalisgv! In this case, I'm referring to Chan's unthinking comments about his parents not having to "sacrifice" in China what they "sacrificed" for his skating in Canada. Actually, once again, it seems Chan is a bit confused in his thinking, but that often happens to young adults who are still maturing and gaining a broader perspective.
    I tend to agree with Sylvia's take that he was thinking of basically getting a free ride financially if he were to skate in China.

    But overall I think his comments were pretty clear--he doesn't feel he's getting enough recognition in Canada, and he thinks if he were competing in China, he would be getting that. Also, I don't think that Chan was being immature. I think he has (and has had for quite some time) a very strong ego. And I think his comments have consistently reflected that over the years. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Ah, Proustable, but again I think Chan needs to be clearer what he means. It seems pretty much that he says a lot of things without thinking. Lots of things would not have been required in China for his parents to "sacrifice," but you can be sure a whole lot of other things would have been required for him and his parents to "sacrifice." Chan needs to read, The Second Mark (section on Shen and Zhao), and Lucinda Ruh's Frozen Teardrop. He also needs to speak with Chen Lu and other retired former Chinese figure skaters about the "sacrifices" required of them and their parents by the Chinese federation, not to mention the Chinese government.
    Absolutely, and I don't mean to diminish that.

  12. #32
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    The word "trapped" was a poor choice. Based on message boards, Chinese fans in general also seem to have a different feeling about Chan compared to Michelle Kwan or Caroline Zhang.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I tend to agree with Sylvia's take that he was thinking of basically getting a free ride financially if he were to skate in China.

    But overall I think his comments were pretty clear--he doesn't feel he's getting enough recognition in Canada, and he thinks if he were competing in China, he would be getting that. Also, I don't think that Chan was being immature. I think he has (and has had for quite some time) a very strong ego. And I think his comments have consistently reflected that over the years. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is.
    Well Patrick may very well have an ego, but plenty of people with egos also have filter abilities. I suspect that's Patrick's real problem. He probably doesn't always mean for his words to sound the way they do... I'm starting to find it entertaining.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    . Also, I don't think that Chan was being immature. I think he has (and has had for quite some time) a very strong ego. And I think his comments have consistently reflected that over the years. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is.
    I agree. Yet few people become champions without that mindset. We may love our modest heroes, yet they rarely win the biggest prizes. (And if they do not win, they ultimately lose our support, with few exceptions.)

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    The comment about China is ridiculous. It would have been so much easier for his parents in China? Really, Patrick? You'd think they'd immigrated for a reason.
    Exactly.

    I'm not really a Chan hater--in some ways I kind of like him, as he always strikes me as kind of a loveable, goofy kid.

    But his comments do turn me off and make me not want to root for him. (Honestly, I don't see him as the sharpest knife in the drawer... not saying he's dumb, but by now I'd expect him to be a bit more savvy during interviews.)

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    , but plenty of people with egos also have filter abilities. I suspect that's Patrick's real problem. He probably doesn't always mean for his words to sound the way they do... I'm starting to find it entertaining.
    Good point.

  17. #37
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    I love his skating, just adore it. I didn't love this particular comment, though.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I tend to agree with Sylvia's take that he was thinking of basically getting a free ride financially if he were to skate in China.

    But overall I think his comments were pretty clear--he doesn't feel he's getting enough recognition in Canada, and he thinks if he were competing in China, he would be getting that. Also, I don't think that Chan was being immature. I think he has (and has had for quite some time) a very strong ego. And I think his comments have consistently reflected that over the years. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is.
    Understand your meaning agalisgv.

    The thing is, in Chan's "stream of consciousness," he was maybe looking at China through rose-colored glasses. As Yukari Lepisto has already referenced, if Chan's parents had stayed in southern China, Chan might never have had the opportunity to become a figure skater, much less might his parents have even been in any financially viable position -- which would have made their lack of having to make "financial sacrifices" meaningless.

    Lots of 21 year olds are immature IMO, due to not having had much experience of living, unless they are wise old souls. Indeed Chan does seem to have a "strong ego." I think it has been enhanced further by the hype that has surrounded him. In any case, perhaps his "strong ego" will keep him in good stead during these Groundhog Days, which in my impertinence I think he may be experiencing.

  19. #39

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    If the intent of this thread is to create sympathy for Chan you have failed. Most N.American skaters (that's from USA & Canada) have roots in another country/culture. Nothing unusual about what Chan is feeling. Do you think (for example) Michelle Kwan or Naomi Nari Nam did not feel caught between two cultures? They did not go public with their feelings.

  20. #40
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    ^^ Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    The word "trapped" was a poor choice. Based on message boards, Chinese fans in general also seem to have a different feeling about Chan compared to Michelle Kwan or Caroline Zhang.
    I agree the title is peculiar -- and a bit humorous re other connotations, as I suggested previously.

    What do you mean jjane45 about how "Chinese fans in general seem to have a different feeling about Chan compared to Michelle Kwan or Caroline Zhang?"

    Just curious, as you seem to be in the know What is the "different feeling" exactly that Chinese fans have about Chan vs Kwan or Zhang?

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