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  1. #1

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    Should Sotnikova Follow The Example of Asada & Kostner?

    Right at the start of this season, it was my view that Mao Asada should dispense with the triple axel and focus upon her PCS and the rest of her technical content. Largely, she has done just that and she looks far more assured on the ice. Consequently, for the first time in 3 years she has made the grand prix final. Likewise, Carolina Kostner over the last 2 years has scaled down the difficulty of her technical content and focused more on her PCS and those technical elements that she feels more comfortable with. This has brought her enormous success.

    There is a lesson in all this for other skaters and it is that it is far better to focus on those elements that you can do and do them well, rather than to overstretch yourself on difficult elements that you cannot always pull off. I think this is something Adelina Sotnikova should seriously look at. In particular, I think she should dispense with the Triple Lutz Triple Loop combination and deploy a Triple Lutz Triple Toe Loop or Triple Flip Triple Toe Loop combination instead. Even during the 2010/11, she was coming unstuck with the 3Zx3L (e.g. Russian Nationals SP). This season, she has had enormous difficulties with that combination and it is clear that it has seriously eroded her confidence in the rest of her skating. She is also flutzing her Lutz - a problem she has always had. I just think that as she is having such a problem with that combination, that she should deploy a 3fx3t instead. That would remove the problem with the edge calls and by doing a toe instead of a loop, that would make the combination far more stable. Furthermore, by deploying a combination that she feels more comfortable with, that would restore her own self confidence in the rest of her skating.

    Like Asada and Kostner, Sotnikova is a fantastic all-around skater and I think that by scaling back the technical difficulty and focusing more on her PCS and those technical elements she knows that she do well, she will have far more success. Just as Asada doesn't need the Triple Axel to win, nor does Sotnikova need the 3Zx3L combination.
    Last edited by Maofan7; 12-04-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    I think it will be easier for her to make 3f-3l actually...so she won't get an edge call on her comb.she is flutzing - that's a problem
    But she is just 15!She is a remarkable talent,so she'll be better in future=)

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    The difference between Kostner+Asada and Sotnikova is, that Kostner and Asada can afford to do so. Sotnikova can't yet. Kostner and Asada will receive a high PCS mark, because their skating is great even if there is not as hard technical content. Sotnikova doesn't have the name yet and is still young, so the judges will hold back with her second mark. And I think rightly so. Sotnokova grew a lot since last year, and her basic skating suffered a bit. She doesn't glide on the ice as lightly as she did last year. I am sure as soon as she adjust to her new body, she will be fine, but at the moment she will have to push the technical mark because if she lowers her standards, her PCS won't keep her up.

    Another thing to consider, Adelina is competing not only on the world stage, but also among a number of very talented girls within Russia. So if she lowers her technical difficulty, she could be beaten at home and it may result in her not being sent to the international competitions.

    Besides, if she just hangs on for a while, she will adjust with her body, so lowering her jump content would in my view do more harm. She needs to practice this hard content and compete with it, not put it on the back burner and hope that without practising and competing with it, it will get better on its own. It won't, she needs to keep doing it. But she is a fighter; she will be alright!

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    I agree with this whole-heartedly!

    I think it would be especially wise for someone like Mirai. Forget about the lutz and all the edge/UR calls. Just do the triples that are comfortable. That would allow lots of time/effort to focus on skating skills, program components, etc.
    It has worked beautifully for Carolina. Her whole skating experience has improved, and clearly the judges have spoken loudly that they are willing to give good marks for things done well, and do not seem inclined to punish skaters who do not have the entire jump arsenal in their programs.

    I truly believe all coaches should take a lesson here and not keep putting their skaters out there trying to do things that consistently go badly. It might be nice to see more programs performed well ... even though there would be an overall decrease in the degree of difficulty. Seems like a good swap to me!

  5. #5

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    I remember reading in one of the interviews Sotnikova finds it easier to do a loop as a second jump rather than toeloop - the loop requires less speed in her case. Will try to find the interview later...

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    Ok, on my planet, this is what happened: Mao always got good pcs. Once they started getting all anal about edges and ur, she dumped the lutz and 3/3. Now she needed the 3x more than ever to beat yuna. So she because obsessed with landing the difficult jump, and would make other mistakes or get stressed out. She didn't win 2 world champs and an oly silver because the judges gave her low pcs. Now that yuna is out and its not the olys, she isn't focusing on the 3x so much and actually breathes during her programs.

    Caro is injured and can't land the 3z. It will probably come back when she's better. She's also always gotten high pcs. But she is skating cleaner now.

    As for Adelina, skaters usually focus on what they do well. I wouldn't assume she can more easily land the 3f/3t just because it's easier on paper. Why do you think all of those guys with strong 3z are trying 4z instead of the "easier" 4r or 4f? Skaters usually build upon their strengths. They also usually work on all things together. During Kwans "big transformation" in 96, she didn't just improve pcs drastically, she also introduced the 3/3 for the first time in her programs. Even when she was a 4 time world champ and ogm fav, she was trying new 3/3s, not dumping the old ones.

    06 may have made people think safe and clean could win the olys under cop, but 10 meant just the opposite.

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    Mao, Carolina or not, Adelina should stop trying 3Lz/3L. Because her Flutz is too much. She should focus on 3F/3L, and work on fixing her Lutz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Mao, Carolina or not, Adelina should stop trying 3Lz/3L. Because her Flutz is too much. She should focus on 3F/3L, and work on fixing her Lutz.
    She used to do a beautiful 3sal/3loop and it seemed pretty consistent. It's still a big point-getter and a combo she knows, so I think she should revive it. She did at least learn after CoC not to repeat the flutz and do two flips instead.

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    TAHbKA had linked an article where Adelina's growth spurt was discussed. She definitely has done some growing since her last season. Shouldn't Team Adelina wait and see what happens and how she eventually responds to her new body and then make decisions accordingly?

    Things seem to be too much in flux right now. She is not going to Worlds so I don't see what the rush would be.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    She used to do a beautiful 3sal/3loop and it seemed pretty consistent. It's still a big point-getter and a combo she knows, so I think she should revive it. She did at least learn after CoC not to repeat the flutz and do two flips instead.
    This might be a good idea and then she could do the 3flip for a solo jump. I really don't think Adelina should give up on the lutz, or hard combos altogether. Shes' far too talented of a jumper to limit herself that way.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    She used to do a beautiful 3sal/3loop and it seemed pretty consistent. It's still a big point-getter and a combo she knows, so I think she should revive it.
    Absolutely. Something like this would work:

    short program

    3sal3loop
    steps into 3flip
    2axel

    or 3flip3toe
    steps into 3loop
    2axel

    free skate

    3sal3loop
    3lutz
    2axel3toe

    3flip2toe2loop
    3loop
    3flip
    2axel

  12. #12
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    is flip an easier jump?i thought lutz and flip are very similar...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    is flip an easier jump?i thought lutz and flip are very similar...
    The Lutz jump is not on the same circle as the take off. The Flip is.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    is flip an easier jump?i thought lutz and flip are very similar...
    The lutz jump rotation is in the opposite direction (anticlockwise, for a right handed skater) to the take off (left outside edge, which is a clockwise movement), so it's easy to see why a flutz (getting on the inside edge just before jumping) would occur. For a flip, you start on the left outside 3-turn, which gets you on the inside edge before you do the jump. So at least thoeretically the lutz should be easier than the flip. However, it depends on the skater. For some the flip is more difficult (they get on the outside edge instead of the inside, like Sokolova, for example, who had a very bad 'lip' instead of a flip).

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    Back to the topic of Sotnikova and the OP, I think it's too early to compare Adelina with Mao and Carolina. She has really not accomplished anything yet. Mao has a track record of landing the 3A-2t combination which no other lady was/is doing. Carolina was able to do all triples except the 3A. Both have won multiple world medals. We will have to see what works for Adelina and how far she can go before talking about the diluting her jump content the way Mao has done recently (and I have no doubt she will get back her 3A at some point), and the way Carolina had to, due to her injury.

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    Adelina said in the interview that she is working on different 3-3s and learning 3F-3T because she wants to be able to change combos in her programs for different competitions and 3T in the end puts less pressure on her leg than 3Lo. But 3Lo as the second jump is easier for her than 3T (except 2A-3T combo)

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    I seem to remember Mao not doing the triple axel early in the 2007-08 season. In fact her jump layouts were pretty conservative for her until she turned up at the GPF, bombed the SP and then stormed the long with a 3x and two different 3-3's. I think Mao will definitely try the triple axel later in the season which will mean she would be attempting all 6 triple jumps. Considering hardly any of the girls can do the usual five cleanly, her attempting 6 (with a likely flutz admittedly) isn't really scaling back on tech content, rather re-distributing the TES points if you like

  18. #18
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    For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it .

    OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.

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    At least, Asada has never abandoned the 3A. She says "definitely going for the 3A at the Final." Let's see how things work out.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    For me, Sotnikova has some of the ugliest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her triple flutz-squat-triple loop deserves -3 even when it's clean, and the double axel-lean over-triple toe maybe -2. If she were American, we'd never hear the end of it .

    OTOH, Tukt (not even going to attempt to spell it) has some of the prettiest triple-triple combinations I've ever seen. Her technique, IMO, is a million times better, and her limitations will be easier to address in the long-term.
    I definitely disagree. Yes, Adelina has a flutz, but her jumps MUCH bigger than Elizaveta's and she carries more speed in and out of them. Her landing positions are also strong and well-extended as opposed to that hunched over lowered back that we see with Tukt.

    I don't know what you mean about her 2a/3t. The technique and the height and flow are out of this world!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utt253GRpCA#t=1m52s

    THAT deserves a -2? In what universe??

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