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  1. #21

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    Whenever the economy of a country goes south such sentiments unfortunately becomes more prevalent.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    A civilised country should have hate speech laws. UK does, thank god.
    Sorry, but you cannot and should not try to fight fascism by practising it. I draw the line where there is a direct incitement to violence. But 'hatred'? Isn't all marxist rhetoric 'hatred' of the wealthy? And hasn't marxism in practice resulted in the deaths of tens of millions?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Even in the states she would have been arrested.
    No, she wouldn't.

    Although in the states, she probably would have been punched, and then THAT person would have been arrested.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    And I'd think twice before breathing a sigh of relief regarding her remarks about Polish people - it sounded like she was saying that they weren't as "good" as British people.
    She can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understood from danceronice's comment she agreed with that woman about Polish people being worse from British people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    Sorry, but you cannot and should not try to fight fascism by practising it. I draw the line where there is a direct incitement to violence. But 'hatred'? Isn't all marxist rhetoric 'hatred' of the wealthy? And hasn't marxism in practice resulted in the deaths of tens of millions?
    This has got absolutely nothing to do with fascism.

    Minorities who suffer from discrimination, social exclusion and disempowerement should be protected. Life is hard enough for them as it is and they are not playing an even field. Far from it.

    (And no, marxist theory isn't "hatred of the wealthy", you clearly have no clue what you're talking about )

  5. #25

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    I agree the woman's a lowlife but as some people have commented on twitter I wonder if what she actually needed was a doctor more than the police.

    She didn't sound drunk to me but she looked like she might have been high, and that seems like reason enough to question her parenting skills.

    I think we've established now from previous threads that many people in the US really value their free speech rights and will not tolerate any erosion of them. In the UK hate speech is pretty strictly defined by the law and only covers particular types of hate speech including racism.

    I have to say that i'm pretty glad that crazies like the Westboro Baptist Church loonies would not be able to pull the crap they do in the UK, but i also respect the US view of disagreeing violently with what someone says but fighting just as violently to protect that person's right to say it.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    No, she wouldn't.
    ...
    Why do you think this? Most (if not all) states have laws against disorderly conduct, which would apply to this kind of tirade (regardless of content); those laws would not apply if the same sentiments were expressed on a tee-shirt, for example. Even if no arrests, though, some states would allow the police to send her to a mental health facility for three days, while they examine her.

  7. #27
    drinky typo pbp, closet hugger
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    because I've been on tons of public transit with these kinds of outbursts. Talking isn't disorderly conduct. If she were impeding the train from moving forward in some way, or getting physical with other passengers, yes, but for spewing her hate randomly? At most she would be asked to leave the train - IF there was security on hand, which it doesn't look like there was.

    And I don't think she's got a mental disorder. I think she's just a hateful bat.
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    She can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understood from danceronice's comment she agreed with that woman about Polish people being worse from British people...

    Minorities who suffer from discrimination, social exclusion and disempowerement should be protected. Life is hard enough for them as it is and they are not playing an even field. Far from it.
    Absolutely agree with this. But the people on that trains were adults & probably considered the source. She came off as an absolute low-life whose opinion carried very little value. The greatest harm she is doing is raising her son in that hate-filled environment.

    The framers of the American Constitution probably had no thought or wish to protect people like members of the Westboro church. I don't wish to lose any rights, but I think my rights shouldn't include hurting others, either by word or deed. If I want to bury my dead soldier son in peace, I should be able to do so without a howling crowd screaming at me.
    Last edited by taf2002; 11-30-2011 at 05:23 PM. Reason: to remove controversial statement

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    British people are probably the most insular people on earth. What surprises me is that they allow immigration at all. The majority of them seem to have the same opinion of all Americans as this woman did of the people on that train.
    I think your generalisation is pretty ignorant.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I think your generalisation is pretty ignorant.
    Me too. Even more so considering the owner of this site is British.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  11. #31

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    Saying a people are insular is not an insult per se. Texans are insular, probably far more than people of any other state in the US. But I thought I was stating a fact about how many English people feel about Americans. I have heard all my life that the English consider us rude, brash, & ignorant. If that's not true, I sincerely apologize.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Even in the states she would have been arrested. The charges may not stick but the arrest was warranted.
    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    No, she wouldn't.
    According to this link

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    "A 34-year-old woman from New Addington was arrested on Monday, 28 November on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence. This relates to a video which appeared on YouTube and was brought to police attention earlier today," The Telegraph quoted a British Transport Police (BTP) spokesperson, as saying.
    In the States, she might have been arrested for a public order offense, but I am pretty sure there wouldn't have been an enhancement for a the content of her speech. There are enhancements for violent crimes with a racist component, but not for nonviolent ones, AFAIK.

    Had she said everything in a quiet, non-disruptive way, things would be different.

    As for the video, I was struck by the couple sitting directly behind her: a young black man, who is visibly distraught, and his white girlfriend, who is trying to comfort him and calm him down.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    No, she wouldn't.

    Although in the states, she probably would have been punched, and then THAT person would have been arrested.
    Agree-we live in this state with Fred Phelps and his God Hates Fags brethren. Their free speech, while disgusting, is protected. I am a strong believer in our first amendment and while I despise Phelps I understand why he has the right to make his vile statements.

    If that woman were in this country I could see her being arrested for disturbing the peace but not for her speech. I do think she would have had a bloody lip though..child or no child. That poor kid.

    **Note about Westboro---Within the last two weeks the local paper ran a long feature about Phelps 20 something year old granddaughter who appears to be taking the reigns instead of her insane, bitter (but smart enough to argue before the Supreme Court) mother. If you didn't know anything about her upon meeting her you would not know she supports Westboro. There is some speculation that other family members who have renounced Fred may be able to reach her and their dwindling following. Let us hope....
    Last edited by Cachoo; 11-30-2011 at 05:53 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Saying a people are insular is not an insult per se. Texans are insular, probably far more than people of any other state in the US. But I thought I was stating a fact about how many English people feel about Americans. I have heard all my life that the English consider us rude, brash, & ignorant. If that's not true, I sincerely apologize.
    Well you're certainly ticking the ignorant and rude boxes. Your now edited statement wasn't controversial, it WAS insulting. Please don't choose to speak for me as an Englishman; you know nothing of my opinion of Americans or any other race or nation. If you choose to buy into media driven stereo-types based on anything but actual fact, that's your problem. But please don't attempt to apply the same rhetoric to an entire nation you clearly don't know very much about.

    WRT the video - this has been circulating over here for a few days now and in this instance I am very glad that we do have laws against hate speech and that she can be prosecuted for her actions. ITA with Ziggy on this. As a member of one of society's more vulnerable minorities, I need to know that I'm protected in such instances that sadly are becoming all too frequent these days.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    According to this link


    In the States, she might have been arrested for a public order offense, but I am pretty sure there wouldn't have been an enhancement for a the content of her speech. There are enhancements for violent crimes with a racist component, but not for nonviolent ones, AFAIK.

    Had she said everything in a quiet, non-disruptive way, things would be different.

    As for the video, I was struck by the couple sitting directly behind her: a young black man, who is visibly distraught, and his white girlfriend, who is trying to comfort him and calm him down.
    As I said, the charges I'm sure wouldn't stick but she for sure would have been arrested for the myriad of reason I stated before. Her hate speech and disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct could have very easily incited a riot and if not for her child on her lap, I have no doubt it would have.

    I still would love to know what set her off, before the mobile went on.

  16. #36
    drinky typo pbp, closet hugger
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I have heard all my life that the English consider us rude, brash, & ignorant.
    It's a stereotype, not a set of instructions.
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  17. #37
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    I have heard all my life that......
    .....anything

    Always question those kinds of statements.

  18. #38

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    Sweeping generalizations are never good - I know that so I definitely shouldn't have done it. I'm really sorry.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    But I thought I was stating a fact about how many English people feel about Americans. I have heard all my life that the English consider us rude, brash, & ignorant.
    I (an American) lived in England for 11 years - that's not true.

    Nice to see your apology.
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  20. #40

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    I have only had fab experiences with Brits...so they(except this woman) are fab in my books. Can I stereotype that?

    And I am not just saying that because Sharps started up FSU...though she is one of the fab people I have met that came to Kitchener for the GPF.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

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