So what's the alternate suggestion, then?
For the die-hard ubers, show the events live from beginning to end on the back channel, maybe TSN2 or something else like that. Keep the show and commentary to a minimum - think about the work PJ did for CBC. We'll PVR what we can't watch live. But we will be able to see everyone. And maybe attract more fans, too.
stream it live as well. not everyone has or wants tsn2. then show the best programs on air. basically, do the same thing cbc did.
There is no way to have a fair judged competition if you split the groups. Period. It is already difficult for any judge to maintain consistency through a competition, like a Junior Grand Prix with 32 girls of all levels of skating! And there will be no where near that many skaters at Canadians. And will it be geo-blocked? International fans who would like to follow would like to watch a live stream Canadians. Last year I had to "watch" the ongoing chat and watch the coverage via Skype on my sister's computer in Canada! I will miss PJ!
I will say that in other sports, all officials are not created equal. The best officials are assigned to the most competitive games, more or less. Some officials are just great schmoozers or coasting on past brilliance, and that's how they get the plum assignments.
But for the most point, the best officials are on the higher ranked teams games.
This means that on tough calls, the lesser ranked teams don't get the benefit of the expertise the stronger teams enjoy.
Also, if it makes you feel better, there are complaints in other sports.
One of my FB friends calculated the impact of the TV on a football game, based on the numbers in the article above.
College football has average of *19* TV timeouts, ranging from 30 sec to 3 min. Let's average that low & say 15 breaks at 1.5 min. per break. That equals about 22 minutes per game. "Big games" get up to *30* TV timeouts. So teams whose games are broadcast get *at least* 22 and up to *60* MORE MINUTES rest & strategy time than those who are not televised.
Of course, pretty much ever game is broadcast somewhere, although there is probably a difference between network/cable games and those broadcast only locally on public / community stations.
So in the end, all players stats are compared across the specific NCAA division, but players in network games get a lot more rest.
"Puccini cries out for spirals, but really good ones." ~ Dick Button, 1998 Worlds
I'm not really sure I'm understanding here...but if were talking about Figure Skating Events being edited. In which case we never see all of the Competition or Event. Then there,s an easy way to solve that.....they can WORK IT IN with the Networks to let them have the TIME for all of it.
No, FSWer, we're not talking about the editing. This is the schedule for the last two days of Nationals this year:
Saturday January 28
12:00pm Championship Dance Free Dance (Session 17)
4:00 pm Championship Ladies Free Skate (Session 18)
CHAMPIONSHIP DANCE AND LADIES AWARDS
8:30pm Championship Pairs- Early Groups 1 & 2 (Session 18)
Sunday January 29
9:30am Championship Men Free Skate Early Groups 1 & 2 (Session 19)
11:30am Championship Pairs- Late Groups 3 & 4 (Session 20)
1:00pm Championship Men Free Skate Late Groups 3 & 4 (Session 20)
CHAMPIONSHIP MEN AND PAIRS AWARDS
Translation: The bottom 8-10 Pairs teams do their Long program on Saturday at 8:30 pm. The top 8-10 Pairs teams do their Long program on SUNDAY at 11:30 am. Then a winner from all the teams, bottom and top, is declared.
This is just INSANE. It's one thing to spread it out over the course of a day but to spread it out over two days? Crazy, crazy, crazy.
For the Men, they only spread it out over one day. Bottom men do their FS at 9:30 am, top at 1:00 pm and the top Pairs are in between them. It's not as crazy, but it's still not right.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
If there are only 3 pairs, that sessions is going to be very, very short.
I have to say, I find the whole schedule to be pretty incomprehensible.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
I still have a feeling this is a direct result of Skate Canada not having a major title sponsor for their main National big time events. CTV knows they can use that as leverage. Especially after the money they forked over for the National rights for Skate Canada and Canadians. So in turn, they decided to pull this when and while they could.
Just a theory, but one that wouldn't shock me if it's true.
A more serious suggestion might be along the lines of, "Disadvantages of splitting events at Nationals to accommodate TV broadcasts." That being said, I feel better having vented and I suspect changing the thread title at this point would be making a quad Axel out of a double toe.
Absolutely - but how many times does it drift from venting to serious discussion?Can't we still discuss it? After all, thread drift happens all the time here at FSU.
This is what I think: if the discussion is not going as you like, either don't participate or try to turn it in the direction you are interested in. (Which is often remarkably easy to do.) One choice saves you aggravation and the other might actually give you what you want. But bitching "this thread isn't about what I wanted to be about" just passes the aggravation and that's pointless IMO.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
If none of the 13 U.S. Senior pair teams withdraws, then I anticipate the FS groups will be 3-3-3-4, which means 6 pairs will compete on Saturday night and 7 on Sunday afternoon. Even if one pair ends up withdrawing, I assume there will still be 4 groups (2-3-3-4) rather than 3 groups of 4.An entire extra session of Pairs on a completely separate day for 3-5 pairs is absolutely ridiculous.
I really don't think it's a question of "can't figure out" how not to split events. My unofficial hearsay information is that in order for the Senior Pairs FS final group (4 teams) to be broadcast live on NBC this year, they had to be moved to Sunday, which in turn resulted in the Men's FS being split so that both could be televised live by NBC.If you can't figure out how to avoid splitting a discipline as small as the US pairs discipline even for TV purposes, then your competition is not well run, IMO.
Last edited by Sylvia; 11-29-2011 at 04:24 PM.
I still remember one year they went through the trouble of splitting up events and NBC STILL ended up showing stuff on tape...
Unless one can get an absolute guarantee that the TV network will show the split events LIVE, no use inconveniencing everyone else, JMO.
You are right, that is insane. This is a judged sport that is comparative whether anyone wants to officially admit it or not. Having skaters compete on two different days makes for an uneven playing field, plus a massive break that allows for politicking and fixed judging as never before.
I'm really hoping if one team withdraws (prior to the start of the competition) and takes us down to 12 teams, that they really can make a change to the schedule and allow for all 12 skaters to compete on Sunday, in 3 groups of 4. It's about a 12 minute different to add in two more teams (instead of the top 10 originally figured). The tech panel, judges, and other officials surely do not want to interrupt their evening the night before for so few pairs, and I believe that the officials as well would want to have all of the teams competing on the same day if it were possible -- for their own sake.
When it comes down to it, given the numbers of qualifying teams after US sectionals... 2012 US Nationals really can't allow for about 25-30 extra minutes in the pairs event and place them all on Sunday? (1 warm-up, 3 freeskates, judging time between skaters). Really? 30 more minutes? It won't impact the TV crews to do so. Or the officials (I assume different panels for Men vs. Pairs). Or the volunteers. Or the arena staff. Or USFS HQ staff. Etc. etc. In fact, I think everyone wins by having Saturday evening end a little earlier, and starting Sunday's competition 30 minutes earlier.
I'm certain that some coaches and skaters, and possibly some officials, are already having conversations with the USFS HQ events staff and Chief Ref. about this. Hopefully something may be worked out before January. If not, I'll be at Session 18 regardless...
I do think the the USFSA got into some bad habits while skating was popular(treating ticket payers poorly, taking the TV audience for granted) that they have not completely recovered from. As far as the splitting for TV reasons - if the product doesn't stand up live it won't be a good TV product either. I am a looooong time skating fan, and while I realize that people like me don't pay the freight, but they do form a reliable base on which to attract the fair weather fans who do. And for a variety of reasons, all relating to what is going on in the sport, I am finding that figure skating is becoming less endless interesting to me and I am finding it much easier to miss a telecast if I have something better to do.