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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    But would football ever televise the same game spread out over 2 days?
    It gets moved to 11 a.m. frequently. Which sucks for fans. We hate it at our house.

    And football has specific rules about the length of breaks between quarters and halves on all levels. Skating does not have specific rules about the timing between groups competing. That gives the network more flexibility to demand the schedule change.

    The complaint was "why should television dictate the schedule?". The reality is that television dictates all kinds of sports schedules as well as the schedules of other events.

    But what am I thinking trying to give a tiny bit of perspective to all the complaining.

  2. #22
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    Even the mighty NFL moves its Nov/Dec games around for TV. Mainly to ensure that Sunday night viewers get games w/playoff implications, etc.

    I think you did not see the splitting of skating events before because of the nature of the old 6.0 system. Now that Cop is in place, and is SUPPOSED to be even (although we all know it isn't- PCS still being used as a rep score in many cases), you're seeing the federations and the networks finding the flexibility to split events and move them around for TV.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    It gets moved to 11 a.m. frequently. Which sucks for fans. We hate it at our house.

    And football has specific rules about the length of breaks between quarters and halves on all levels. Skating does not have specific rules about the timing between groups competing. That gives the network more flexibility to demand the schedule change.

    The complaint was "why should television dictate the schedule?". The reality is that television dictates all kinds of sports schedules as well as the schedules of other events.

    But what am I thinking trying to give a tiny bit of perspective to all the complaining.
    I completely agree with you. Splitting up the schedule is stupid but don't blame TV; blame the organizers. Universal Sports has been a huge disappointment for me, they aren't even showing short programs. I would love to see skating live on TV, some sacrifices have to be made.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    But what am I thinking trying to give a tiny bit of perspective to all the complaining.
    This is not reality TV purely for entertainment, but a sports competition. The perspective should be what is best for the sport and what is best for the athletes. I am EXTREMELY upset that this is happening in Canada.

    There are 18 singles skaters, 12 pairs teams (if there are enough entries) and 15 dance teams (if there are enough) at Canadians - only 3 flights for each event. The pruning of entries is done at Challenge. This year, the men's event is not impacted. I guess they are way more important than the other disciplines. I guess they've forgotten the popularity of ice dance, given the fact Virtue/Moir are current reigning Olympic champions. It's ladies, pairs and dance. So basically what Skate Canada is saying is that the entries that don't qualify for the top flight from the Short program don't matter. They aren't worth watching. What if some of the lower entries skate better than the top flight? There will be some skaters "on the bubble" for top flight status. How can we guarantee the same measuring stick has been used for all 3 flights so the competition can be fair to the athletes? This is a judged sport, not tennis or baseball or golf. In order to be fair, it needs to be treated like one competition. What about the fans who now have to wait around all day to watch an entire event? What happens if the numbers in pairs and dance are not full, and there are only 12 teams in total in dance? Are there 3 flights of 4 skaters? Doesn't that mean that a team is then robbed of their opportunity to skate in the same competition? And won't the fans feel robbed that they missed great skaters who would otherwise finish in the top 5 but just happened to have a few bad moments in the Short? It's not beyond possible that someone in 6th place can skate lights out and end up on the podium, especially if the scores after the Short are really close. Are we expecting the results to be predetermined like the bad old days? What about the fans at home? Not everyone can travel across the country to a national competition. But they may want to cheer on their local favourites and get to know the developing skaters, even if they don't finish in the top 5 in the Short program. This decision is so WRONG on many levels. I really hope Skate Canada hears from so many people very loudly that they change their minds. If this is about CTV, then they need to revoke the rights and give to CBC, who did a great job of showing ALL skaters and events on Bold at Canadians.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    This is not reality TV purely for entertainment, but a sports competition. The perspective should be what is best for the sport and what is best for the athletes. I am EXTREMELY upset that this is happening in Canada.
    So? The other sports get moved around, too. I suspect that one reason the Breeder's Cup is split into Friday/Saturday instead of a more logical Saturday/Sunday is they don't want to overlap with Sunday football. (That, and as racing is a special case, there might be rules as far as where the actual races are held about betting on Sundays. There are odder laws on the books. But again, wagering makes racing a little different than other sports.)

  6. #26

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    I don't like the splitting events either. I get that CTV/TSN want a night of "championship figure skating" but I think its silly to actually split up the events. I can just see at the end of the live coverage, and your national pairs team are these 5 pairs: oh whoops you didn't get to see the 5th because they weren't in the final flight!

    I know sports have been catering more to television networks, but I definitely don't like it! (and I'm going to be in Moncton for Canadian Nationals and I don't like the prospect at all!)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    This is not reality TV purely for entertainment, but a sports competition. The perspective should be what is best for the sport and what is best for the athletes. What about the fans at home? :
    And 11 a.m. and 9 p.m. college football games are what is "best for the athletes"? Some game times dictated by television are also not good for the facilities and cities where the events are held. I know from local police that they hate kickoffs in Nebraska in the late afternoon or evening because of more problems with tailgating and drunk fans. But no one is asking them. Television decides the game times almost every week.

    As for the poor fans who can't go and might find the television schedule inconvenient--really? What about the whole list of college football games this Friday? Oh no! What about the poor fans who have to work that day since it is, after all, not a weekend? Someone think of them! Why is there Monday Night Football in the NFL? Some people work second shift, they can't watch! It should be stopped...Seriously, some people aren't going to be able to watch an event on television no matter what it is and when it is aired. It is beyond not realistic for television networks to only air something when it is convenient for every single person who wants to watch it.

    But no one here is indulging in petty complaining at all...

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    But would football ever televise the same game spread out over 2 days?
    No, but football games do have specific television timeouts.

  9. #29

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    The difference is that moving a game to 11 am, while sucky, impacts *everyone* playing equally. That's not the same with splitting skating groups like this. The person who sits 7th after the SP, despite perhaps being very close to the top group, is simply not going to be on an equal footing with those skating much later. And that's plain wrong IMO.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara View Post
    The difference is that moving a game to 11 am, while sucky, impacts *everyone* playing equally. That's not the same with splitting skating groups like this. The person who sits 7th after the SP, despite perhaps being very close to the top group, is simply not going to be on an equal footing with those skating much later. And that's plain wrong IMO.
    Agree. CoP is *supposed* to put skaters on equal ground, but we know that's not the case.

    And, as I said, this is completely unnecessary. Networks can show pre-recorded segments of the competition whenever they want - they always have in skating, and in other sports as well, notably the Olympics. They even have the added bonus of being able to show the actual top six, rather than the final flight, as well as earlier highlights of anyone who did anything particularly interesting.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    No, but football games do have specific television timeouts.
    Where everyone on the field stands around awkwardly and the air is completely sucked out of the stadium for five minutes or so...sometimes impacting an offense's tempo or momentum.

    But, again, the point about football games being scheduled at bad times is that television has long scheduled sporting events not the best interests of the athletes, coaches, facilities or their staff, security concerns, cities, or anything else. Figure skating is not unique in experiencing the problem nor is it going to change.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    And 11 a.m. and 9 p.m. college football games are what is "best for the athletes"? Some game times dictated by television are also not good for the facilities and cities where the events are held. I know from local police that they hate kickoffs in Nebraska in the late afternoon or evening because of more problems with tailgating and drunk fans. But no one is asking them. Television decides the game times almost every week.

    As for the poor fans who can't go and might find the television schedule inconvenient--really? What about the whole list of college football games this Friday? Oh no! What about the poor fans who have to work that day since it is, after all, not a weekend? Someone think of them! Why is there Monday Night Football in the NFL? Some people work second shift, they can't watch! It should be stopped...Seriously, some people aren't going to be able to watch an event on television no matter what it is and when it is aired. It is beyond not realistic for television networks to only air something when it is convenient for every single person who wants to watch it.

    But no one here is indulging in petty complaining at all...
    Heck if I am on the west coast MNF is over before I get home

    Honestly you are correct. It's not about the athletes, it's ratings etc...

    My concern is that I don't think it's helping the "ratings" in figure skating because I don't think it addresses the issues that keep folks from watching (AKA as a lack of interest and an uneasy feeling that "it's rigged" IMHO I am not saying it's rigged, but I think folks feel that way about figure skating)

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    And 11 a.m. and 9 p.m. college football games are what is "best for the athletes"? Some game times dictated by television are also not good for the facilities and cities where the events are held. I know from local police that they hate kickoffs in Nebraska in the late afternoon or evening because of more problems with tailgating and drunk fans. But no one is asking them. Television decides the game times almost every week.

    As for the poor fans who can't go and might find the television schedule inconvenient--really? What about the whole list of college football games this Friday? Oh no! What about the poor fans who have to work that day since it is, after all, not a weekend? Someone think of them! Why is there Monday Night Football in the NFL? Some people work second shift, they can't watch! It should be stopped...Seriously, some people aren't going to be able to watch an event on television no matter what it is and when it is aired. It is beyond not realistic for television networks to only air something when it is convenient for every single person who wants to watch it.

    But no one here is indulging in petty complaining at all...
    I really don't care what time of day the skating is shown, to be honest. That's what PVR is for. My complaint is that Skate Canada has decided to split the event in 2. There are basically going to be 2 competitions: one for the presumed top tier, and one for the rest. The first 2 flights will happen earlier in the day, and the top flights at night, except for the men which will take place in one event on Sunday. There was nothing wrong with the way that CBC managed this last year. They showed the entire event on Bold when the event was scheduled. They put together a program, some live and some taped, for the prime-time show on the main network. I would think this is way better idea for TV, since they will actually get to setup the drama and the competition according to the real results, instead of the presumed results. Now, they are betting on the fact that the top flight after the Short will be the top flight in the end. That isn't always going to be the case.

    This is not about petty complaining. This about what is fair for the athletes and to produce a fair competition. This is not golf, show jumping, tennis, etc. This is judged competition. Furthermore, the new format is not fair to the fans who buy tickets to the competition. They would want to watch the whole event, and not have to wait around all day if that's the only event they wanted to watch. Maybe they wanted to only watch Ladies or Pairs. Not everyone buys an all-event pass.

  14. #34
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    Here's a relevant question..... Thinking about gymnastics national championships in the US and Canada..... Would the gymnastics federation take a floor routine competition and divide it up into a morning competition for the perceived lower performers, and then an elite competition just for the presumed elite competitiors in the evening? I'm guessing the answer to that is a firm no. All competitors perform right after each other in the same event and timeframe. If you are in the event, elite or not, it's all at the same time.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara View Post
    The difference is that moving a game to 11 am, while sucky, impacts *everyone* playing equally. That's not the same with splitting skating groups like this. The person who sits 7th after the SP, despite perhaps being very close to the top group, is simply not going to be on an equal footing with those skating much later. And that's plain wrong IMO.
    And won't it be embarrassing if the person sitting 7th after the SP ends up winning the title without being televised live?

    It's bound to happen sometime. We've seen skaters win the freeskate from 7th and take a lesser medal, under both 6.0 and IJS.

    In pairs we've seen skaters win from 5th after the short, outside the final group.

    Not common, but it can happen. So I'd hope the networks would at least keep tape of a medalworthy performance leading after the earlier groups and plan some time to show it during the live broadcast.

  16. #36

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    Richard Dornbush won the free skate and the overall silver medal at Nationals after being 7th after the short. Emanuel Sandhu and Elena Liashenko went from 7th to 1st overall at Grand Prix Events soon after the implementation of IJS/COP.

    Splitting the event is just an awful idea. I was upset about it in its first incarnation. I feel bad for the skaters whose dream it was just to qualify to Nationals and whose experience just won't be the same if they compete (even leaving alone criticisms about the possibility of judging not be comparable between the early and later groups, or groups held on different days (an even WORSE idea!)).

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    Richard Dornbush won the free skate and the overall silver medal at Nationals after being 7th after the short. Emanuel Sandhu and Elena Liashenko went from 7th to 1st overall at Grand Prix Events soon after the implementation of IJS/COP.

    Splitting the event is just an awful idea. I was upset about it in its first incarnation. I feel bad for the skaters whose dream it was just to qualify to Nationals and whose experience just won't be the same if they compete (even leaving alone criticisms about the possibility of judging not be comparable between the early and later groups, or groups held on different days (an even WORSE idea!)).
    If athletes and coaches are bothered by it or consider it terribly unfair, I'm sure it will be voiced to the federations at some point. In my experience with an association which runs competitive events, coaches were asked for feedback about events including scheduling, usually anonymously. If the Nebraska School Activities Association can manage to get (and often listen to) feedback from participants and coaches, I would think that the Canadian and American figure skating feds can do the same (and probably do).So if it is a disaster, I'm sure the coaches will have their say.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    Here's a relevant question..... Thinking about gymnastics national championships in the US and Canada..... Would the gymnastics federation take a floor routine competition and divide it up into a morning competition for the perceived lower performers, and then an elite competition just for the presumed elite competitiors in the evening? I'm guessing the answer to that is a firm no. All competitors perform right after each other in the same event and timeframe. If you are in the event, elite or not, it's all at the same time.
    You are comparing two separate sports that don't show the same on TV. Gymnastics has four events going on at once. They don't show the floor routines 1-20 in order, it just doesn't happen. They go back and forth from one event to the other depending on who/what is being shown. The worst gymnasts don't get shown in a live event.

    Same with skaters, if they had two rinks they may preempt a live Kemp and King to show a live Patrick Chan which honestly I would rather watch. But there is only one rink, so they have to pick and choose.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    You are comparing two separate sports that don't show the same on TV. Gymnastics has four events going on at once. They don't show the floor routines 1-20 in order, it just doesn't happen. They go back and forth from one event to the other depending on who/what is being shown. The worst gymnasts don't get shown in a live event.
    I am pretty sure Northern Dancers was referring to the event finals in which only one event goes on at a time.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge_Break View Post
    I am pretty sure Northern Dancers was referring to the event finals in which only one event goes on at a time.
    So the suggestion is they only show the top eight skaters per discipline?

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