Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 270
  1. #241
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Just curious, but where exactly is this magical 6.0 land where skaters and their coaches had absolutely no idea what they were being judged on, where cyborg judges were like Tommy the deaf dumb and blind boy incapable of giving feedback, where Kwan and Lipinski were at a huge disadvantage because without some publicly published slip of paper with a liitle e on it, they were clueless that they flutzed?

    Iirc cop was kicking around the corridors for years, ignored by tbtb, until the crooks needed an easy PR fix to their now solid reputation for fixed results. Now skating fans can point to a piece of paper with a -0.2 next to a poorly executed 3f and kid themselves that they now have super secret disclosed information that was denied to all during 6.0. cop has saved the world!

  2. #242
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,333
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Dear Janet:

    You know I lurves ya. However, I do believe you're talking nonsense.

    This is what we used to get under 6.0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj_S_QhT8fk

    This is what we get now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgu2...eature=related

    I know which I prefer.

    Best,

    Vaga
    It's not fair ! Vanessa finished in 15th with this awful peformance ! lol
    I miss Vanessa's skating And I love Carolina's !

  3. #243
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,709
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    We will never see a program like this under the new system.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs
    It's just so exciting to watch his speed!

  4. #244
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,207
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    43906
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    We will never see a program like this under the new system.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs
    It's just so exciting to watch his speed!
    Skaters had 26 another years under 6.0 in which to skate programs like this. How many did?

    Skaters had plenty of opportunity to skate like this, too, for almost 35 years.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #245

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Top of Utah!!
    Age
    55
    Posts
    7,550
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19192
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    We will never see a program like this under the new system.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs
    It's just so exciting to watch his speed!
    The speed was impressive, and his spins, too, but the rest seemed kind of wooden to me, especially his arms.
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  6. #246

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Infected with the joy of skating!!
    Posts
    10,553
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    14026
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    We will never see a program like this under the new system.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs
    It's just so exciting to watch his speed!
    Thank you for posting that!!! And thanks to gkelly for posting Stephanie Zhang's program.

    Two skaters I'm embarrassed to say I'd never heard of!

    But I honestly don't know why we can't see programs like Sano's under COP. He'd be killing it under SS, TR and on GOE.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  7. #247

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,941
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    36617
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Just curious, but where exactly is this magical 6.0 land where skaters and their coaches had absolutely no idea what they were being judged on, where cyborg judges were like Tommy the deaf dumb and blind boy incapable of giving feedback, where Kwan and Lipinski were at a huge disadvantage because without some publicly published slip of paper with a liitle e on it, they were clueless that they flutzed?

    Iirc cop was kicking around the corridors for years, ignored by tbtb, until the crooks needed an easy PR fix to their now solid reputation for fixed results. Now skating fans can point to a piece of paper with a -0.2 next to a poorly executed 3f and kid themselves that they now have super secret disclosed information that was denied to all during 6.0. cop has saved the world!
    Because now if a skater does flutz or underrotates they are going to get it made obvious to them. Before was there really the incentive to actually fix the problem when say Lipinski still gets 5.8 on the technical mark for a program with a flutz? Her SP at the 98 Olympics certainly did with 3 judges. And 97 Worlds SP there were 4 judges who did the same. At 97 Worlds only two judges gave 5.5. So for those other judges where was the deduction identified? According to those judges her technical mark should have been 6.0 without a deduction because under that system a wrong edge take off could incur anywhere between a 0.1-0.3.

    6.0 was a placement system. Regardless of the issues a skater has, it still does not tell a skater honestly what the problems are with their performance and what they need to do to fix them.

    Oh but having a system that probably encouraged skaters to flutz probably means that it doesn't give skating fans anything to bitch about when they complain about skaters who flutz still winning events.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  8. #248

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Infected with the joy of skating!!
    Posts
    10,553
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    14026
    I might have to pay up just to rep that, Aussie Willy!!
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  9. #249

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    1 mile from Ice Rink
    Posts
    2,978
    vCash
    550
    Rep Power
    2486
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    We will never see a program like this under the new system.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs
    It's just so exciting to watch his speed!
    Yeah, skating these days are truly off-the-shelf.
    This too will pass away.

  10. #250
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Because now if a skater does flutz or underrotates they are going to get it made obvious to them. Before was there really the incentive to actually fix the problem when say Lipinski still gets 5.8 on the technical mark for a program with a flutz? Her SP at the 98 Olympics certainly did with 3 judges. And 97 Worlds SP there were 4 judges who did the same. At 97 Worlds only two judges gave 5.5. So for those other judges where was the deduction identified? According to those judges her technical mark should have been 6.0 without a deduction because under that system a wrong edge take off could incur anywhere between a 0.1-0.3.

    6.0 was a placement system. Regardless of the issues a skater has, it still does not tell a skater honestly what the problems are with their performance and what they need to do to fix them.
    Oh but having a system that probably encouraged skaters to flutz probably means that it doesn't give skating fans anything to bitch about when they complain about skaters who flutz still winning events.
    Really, I'm the only person in the world who remembers Lipinski publicly apologizing for fluting in 1997? My coworker even pinned the news article to the bulletin board! Lol

    Your posts confuses me thought. Everybody knows that the rules were changed to crack down on edges. This isn't even a cop vs 6.0 thing. Cohen and asada and others were flutzing their way to gold under cop for years! But seriously, you think Tara wasn't working to fix that flutz to make those 5.8s 5.9s like Kwan and irina were getting because she didnt have protocol sheets? Seriously?

    Remember when Hughes changed her lp to only include one flutz and then robin said she hid it as best she could? But oh no, there were no cop protocol sheets! How did robin know sarah flutzed and the judges didn't like it? She must be an alien!
    Last edited by berthesghost; 11-26-2011 at 11:27 PM.

  11. #251

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,941
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    36617
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Really, I'm the only person in the world who remembers Lipinski publicly apologizing for fluting in 1997? My coworker even pinned the news article to the bulletin board! Lol

    Your posts confuses me thought. Everybody knows that the rules were changed to crack down on edges. This isn't even a cop vs 6.0 thing. Cohen and asada and others were flutzing their way to gold under cop for years! But seriously, you think Tara wasn't working to fix that flutz to make those 5.8s 5.9s like Kwan and irina were getting because she didnt have protocol sheets? Seriously?

    Remember when Hughes changed her lp to only include one flutz and then robin said she hid it as best she could? But oh no, there were no cop protocol sheets! How did robin know sarah flutzed and the judges didn't like it? She must be an alien!
    Lipinski and Hughes couldn't have helped got the message about flutzing because there was so much publicity about it. But for a young skater in the lower levels, it might be the only message that they are going to get from a technical panel or judge that they are doing a flutz and they will be penalised for it.

    But what is wrong with having a system that does break it down and analysis it? Systems should constantly strive to improve and you can't justify keeping one that really was incredibly flawed in many ways. There are still flaws under IJS, but it is a much better system in so many ways.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  12. #252
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    But what is wrong with having a system that does break it down and analysis it? Systems should constantly strive to improve and you can't justify keeping one that really was incredibly flawed in many ways. There are still flaws under IJS, but it is a much better system in so many ways.
    Who said there was anything wrong with it? It just gets annoying to hear people pretend cop invented all of this stuff that existed for decades before it.

  13. #253

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,941
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    36617
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Who said there was anything wrong with it? It just gets annoying to hear people pretend cop invented all of this stuff that existed for decades before it.
    I don't think anyone is saying that. But some people do appreciate that under IJS it is more obvious where deductions are being applied. And for many of those developing skaters it is really appreciated which didn't used to happen.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #254

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    There are positives and negatives of each system. My feeling is that Janet is lamenting the loss of artistry as a result of the new judging system and I agree with her on that. Too many programs appear the same under the COP, while in the old system the skaters had more freedom to interpret the music without worrying about how many points it would garner. Anton Sikharulidze had said in the past that it would be very difficult for him and Elena to skate under the COP. I am not against an analytical approach, but I do feel that the COP does not reward the program as a whole; it rewards parts of it. Still it has some positives. I do miss the artistry though. There are only a handful of skaters like Yu na Kim and Mao Asada that can be artistic in both systems. I particularly miss the artistry in pairs skating.

  15. #255
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,775
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that. But some people do appreciate that under IJS it is more obvious where deductions are being applied. And for many of those developing skaters it is really appreciated which didn't used to happen.
    ITA with berthesghost on this one. While I don't think edge calls and under-rotations were punished as severely as they are today, one can't help but look at Sarah Hughes and see many cases where she outjumped her competitors on paper and still finised lower. The judges were not blind to her faults. She eeked out a world bronze medal by finishing 4th in both the sp and lp, and lucked out by a completely indecisive panel in SLC to be in 4th after the short, where most judges had her fifth or lower. She then lucked out again when her competitors tanked in their LPs. Even so, Cohen, Kwan, and Slutskaya stole ordinals from her even with their mistakes. So, to say that flutes and under-rotations were going unnoticed is simply not true.

  16. #256

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    498
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    There are two choices in my mind.
    A. Return to 6.0 and remove the sport from the Olympics
    B. Keep it as it is and get over the loss of revenue and audiences who don't value it as a sport. (Keep tweaking though because the system isn't perfect). Identify ways to marginally increase audience and educate.
    Why would the sport have to be removed from the Olympics if 6.0 were kept? Figure skating is the most popular event in the Winter Olympics. It would never be removed based on the traditional scoring system. The judging controversy of 2002 gave Speedy the excuse to do what he had wanted to do all along--make figure skating more objective and quantitative--kind of like...speed skating. That said, I don't think the sport needs to go back to 6.0. I do think that the system needs to be changed to allow more freedom in the free skate and to stop rewarding things like catchfoots, pretzel spins and labored footwork.

  17. #257

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,195
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post

    Yes, I suppose I would be had I actually said what you erroneously thing you read.
    Well you said
    "Car is winning medals with 1988 jump content". and you are wrong

  18. #258
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Well you said
    "Car is winning medals with 1988 jump content". and you are wrong
    True. By '88 women were landing 3z and 3x. I should have said '84

  19. #259

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,195
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    33486
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    True. By '88 women were landing 3z and 3x. I should have said '84
    Glad to see you agree that you were wrong

    Also which lady landed a triple axel in 1988?

  20. #260
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,768
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    9172
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Glad to see you agree that you were wrong

    Also which lady landed a triple axel in 1988?
    Ito at 1988 Aichi Prefectural Championships, NHK and Japanese Nationals.

    Carry on

Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •