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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Don't the shelters have foster programs now? Maybe you could foster a dog first and see if it is workable for your family. Is your cat an indoor cat? It could be a companion for a dog, or it could be an adversary.

    I don't know what "crate training" is, but I had a neighbor in my apartment building who used to keep a small pit bull in a dog transport while she was out and the poor thing used to go out of it's mind.
    Agree with sk8r1964. Since it was a dog carrier, it was probably *way* too small to use as a crate for him. The doggie carrier I use to transport Mika (xtra small) is just large enough for her to fit in and is fine for a short car ride. I can't imagine keeping her in it for longer than 30 minutes or so. I have a larger carrier (small to medium--probably large enough for a Cavalier or similar) that she uses for her bed and I have a pen that surrounds her bed so I can lock her in at night (I'm allergic so she can't sleep with me and she has the run of the first floor during the day when I'm at work).
    Roll Tide, y'all!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    We do talk to the shelter folks first about our needs, so they can help us match up with a dog that works with younger kids and a cat. This beagle had done well with cats. With all the dogs we've seen so far, I also do the "girl test". After an intro to the doggie, I let my seven year old act naturally around the dog. Seven year olds can be what I call "twitchy". Even with direction re: how to interact with a dog, they move quickly, change directions, come at the dog suddenly, pull the leash too hard, walk across the dog's path, etc. After a good while with the dog, if the dog still wasn't reacting to the girl test, the dog was a contender. If the dog, however, reacted to her antics with anything beyond a sniff, they were out. Yes, I am seeking a dog impervious to kids. Calm, even temperament.

    The beagle passed the girl test with flying colors. We'll see how the beagle does when we meet it again. We plan to spend a few sessions with the dog, each one longer than then the last. Hopefully, that'll help us figure out if this dog really is a match for our family.
    That sounds like a great plan!

    That's actually more extensive that our test with our first golden. They brought him in to meet us only once and he was SO EXCITED and JUMPED ALL OVER and PEED ON THE FLOOR. My dad was but my mom was in love. My sister was 10 and I was 13, so...old enough not to do really stupid things around the dog. My sister was actually the bossy one and kept him in line.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    Crate training

    Sounds like your neighbor wasn't doing it right - either the crate was too small or the dog was in it too long.
    Exactly. The Poodle's crates are really big. They have plenty of room to stand up, turn around and stretch out. My breeders dogs sleep and eat in their crates. Mine go happily when I tell them I have to go to work and get the cookies. They race for the crates. But, they get plenty of exercise after I get home.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  4. #64
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    I have springers and I have always used crates for them. When they were pups they shared a crate. It was a big change when they had to go in their separate crates side by side. We needed to crate them when they were young for short periods of time during the day so they would not destroy the place. Now they are crated only at night. During the day, they nap together in their very own Lazyboy!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizziebeth View Post
    I have springers and I have always used crates for them. When they were pups they shared a crate. It was a big change when they had to go in their separate crates side by side. We needed to crate them when they were young for short periods of time during the day so they would not destroy the place. Now they are crated only at night. During the day, they nap together in their very own Lazyboy!
    Bella wouldn't care if I moved Draco's crate, but he'd cry like a baby if he couldn't see her, so they are right next to each other.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  6. #66
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    The breeder we got our dog from is also in the rescue network for her breed. She rescues dogs and then assesses them and will specify what kind of home they would fit(kids, no kids, other dogs, cats, etc.) If the dog has bitten someone, the dog is euthanized. no second chances. A good breeder is priceless.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I do understand the need to get dogs from rescue organizations, I hate to see any dog put down. But, we also need to support responsible breeders and put the puppy mill breeders out of business. One of the catch 22 issues with rescuing dogs is that it keeps the puppy mill market alive. We need to pass stringent laws making it illegal to breed dogs without a license. There should be major fines or jail time for breaking those laws. We need to put breeding back into the hands of people who do it for the love of and betterment of the dog.
    I'm all for putting puppy mills out of business. But, I don't understand how rescue organizations are the ones to blame for keeping the puppy mill market alive. Why is that? It seems like getting a dog from a shelter or rescue organization is an alternative to puppy mills/stores. What am I missing?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    I'm all for putting puppy mills out of business. But, I don't understand how rescue organizations are the ones to blame for keeping the puppy mill market alive. Why is that? It seems like getting a dog from a shelter or rescue organization is an alternative to puppy mills/stores. What am I missing?
    Well, if people bought from legit breeders rather than puppy mills or pet stores eventually those will go out of business. But as legit breeders do things like campaign their dogs (confo or performance/working) and don't just breed anything with functioning organs. Also don't create 'designer breeds.'

    Personally, I don't do rescues that have bizarre adoption contracts with repeat inspections and such (more common with horses than dogs, but they do exist) and I think some are far too inflexible about things like fenced yards. But I like the county shelter, whose policy is either show proof the dog's been neutered/spayed in 30 days, a note from a vet explaining why they aren't (ie, too young, were already altered--hard to tell on females sometimes, etc.) and if you don't, you get a $300 ticket.

  9. #69
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    ITA. If only legitimate breeders who only breed two dogs or cats in an attempt to improve the breed standard were allowed, there wouldn't be shelters. There'd be thousands of fewer animals born each year. I'd put all backyard breeders and puppy mills out of business if i could.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  10. #70
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    I don't mind people who have a legitimate market for carefully-bred dogs, purebred or not (ie you have homes for the puppies before they're born and breed for some reason other than the lulz). I canNOT stand the people I drive by on the way to the barn who constantly have a $300-400/pup litter of...something for sale. "Shorkies", Yorkies, "Peek-a-Poos", etc. All year long. Or breed dog after dog for pet stores. Or have a litter from a crap dog with NO idea what they're going to do with the puppies so kids can experience "the miracle of birth."

  11. #71
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    My sister-in-law's dog was chewing up everything in her house, so she bought a crate to put him in while she was away doing her mail route (gone 4 hours per day) and after only two days in the crate with the door shut, he was using it as his den to sleep in, and she never had to shut the door on it again. Some dogs just need to be "told" that they don't have to guard the whole house while the people are away.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    . But I like the county shelter, whose policy is either show proof the dog's been neutered/spayed in 30 days, a note from a vet explaining why they aren't (ie, too young, were already altered--hard to tell on females sometimes, etc.) and if you don't, you get a $300 ticket.
    The shelter where Mr. Habs and I got our dog four weeks ago (she's a 1-year-old Shih Tzu) has a vet clinic on site, and all dogs are spayed/neutered when they're admitted. The adoption fee covers that vet cost. I think it's a great policy.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habs View Post
    The shelter where Mr. Habs and I got our dog four weeks ago (she's a 1-year-old Shih Tzu) has a vet clinic on site, and all dogs are spayed/neutered when they're admitted. The adoption fee covers that vet cost. I think it's a great policy.
    I've seen some like that--totally implausible around here (we don't have that kind of budget in this county and kind of a waste as it's not a non-kill shelter) and most rural places, but if you have a rich area with adopters willing to front more it makes life a lot easier. For us we got a $50 rebate if the spay/neuter's done with an approved vet (there are basically two clinics in a reasonable driving distance to chose from) and don't get a whopping fine. So I think my corgi wound up being about $50 after the rebate. I could have put in for a grant/rebate for the stray cat I just had vetted but I didn't bother (he was a he, so his fe-leuk/rabies/distemper was more than his neutering and that was an outpatient procedure.) For a female, I'd have applied for the money.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Well, if people bought from legit breeders rather than puppy mills or pet stores eventually those will go out of business.
    Yes, but how does that explain why shelters and rescue organizations cause the puppy mill problem, which is what cruisin seemed to be saying when she said rescue organizations keep the puppy mill business alive? Puppy mills certainly contribute greatly to the need for shelters and rescue organizations, but I don't understand the reverse argument that rescues and shelters cause puppy mills. In fact, if there weren't shelters and rescue organziations where people were getting dogs right now, there probably would be even more people getting dogs via puppy mills.

    I'd much rather see someone get a dog from a breeder than a puppy mill. But, above all that, I'd much rather see someone save a dog from a shelter or rescue organization. There are so many dogs being killed in shelters.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I've seen some like that--totally implausible around here (we don't have that kind of budget in this county and kind of a waste as it's not a non-kill shelter) and most rural places, but if you have a rich area with adopters willing to front more it makes life a lot easier. For us we got a $50 rebate if the spay/neuter's done with an approved vet (there are basically two clinics in a reasonable driving distance to chose from) and don't get a whopping fine. So I think my corgi wound up being about $50 after the rebate. I could have put in for a grant/rebate for the stray cat I just had vetted but I didn't bother (he was a he, so his fe-leuk/rabies/distemper was more than his neutering and that was an outpatient procedure.) For a female, I'not so implausibled have applied for the money.
    Not so implausible really. 'Round these parts.......if the dog needs to be spayed or neutered.....they do it as part of the adoption agreement, and you pay for it...so not a county expense.

    I totally agree about adog who bites...one strike you go to heaven. We had a fabulous Shepherd who bit a kid who came out from behind my car.....holding my dogs toy. The kid was terrified when he saw the dog......which scared the dog...who protected me. Gone to heaven. And totally my bad for not making sure the dog was 100% compliant on the down command. I just did't know better.

    Shout out for crate training. My dogs love to go into their crates....for no reason. Just 'chillin with the fam.

    Oh and my husband has taught all of our dogs to be ok with any of us taking food out of their bowl, or a bone away. Period...no exceptions. I nener leave little ones with a dog though. Yesterday my employee`s 20 month old grabed the dogs toy from her mouth.....I would not have let the kid do that....but she was fast. Dog....OK. What shall we do next?
    I was thanking hubby.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  16. #76

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    I hope this will not upset anyone, but some of what I am going to say was broached above. My neighbor's son's girlfriend got a beagle because she worked in a university veterinary school and actually did procedures on pregnant beagle moms, half of whose in utero pups were taken out and injected with something, and half who were not touched. She felt sorry for the babies because they would all go to shelters, and that might be the end of that, so she took one, I think it was one who was not injected. This was the 4th small dog in the house, so granted things are a little nuts there, but he seems to be doing his fair share. He is a maniac outdoors, can chase after squirrels for an hour and goes crazy doing it, racing in circles, barking, breaking right through the invisible fence in the process of the chase, so they can't put him outside alone without a human. It is bizarre to watch. I wonder if he would pull your daughter down while walking on the leash if he found a scent to follow. There are two sizes of Beagles, I think he may be the smallest, but he is powerful. Another thing to mention is that he makes this incredible noise which is a combination of moaning/screaming. All day long. Actually, here it is 11:30 at night, and I can hear him howling from inside their house to inside mine. He cries both indoors and outside. He wakes me up in the morning and is the last thing I hear at night. I think my neighbor likes him, but it's her son's girlfriend's dog so she has been trying not to say anything negative, and she has 3 other dogs, 2 of whom are certifiably crazy, so he might seem mild in comparison. They are cute looking dogs, one named Uno won Madison Square Garden National Dog Show in 2008, a very bright looking dog with gorgeous markings.

    Don't let size scare you, we have had labrador retrievers for almost 25 years, and actually did it in sets of two at a time, mostly. They house-trained in one hour and learned to walk on a leash after puppy kindergarten, then aged out at about age two and now sleep all day long, especially if they get a short walk around the block on weekends, even better if we do it each day. They are fenced and have an invisible fence in front yard, but stay without their collars with the many walkers we have going by unless it's, ha ha, another lab, and then they know it's a cousin and go nuts. My neighbor above walks her crowd four times per day. We crated ours for about the first year, they could have gone longer but I kept tripping over the cage. Sweetest dogs ever, 3 kids and 6 grandkids have climbed all over them. Good luck with whatever you decide, doggies are the best pets.
    Last edited by Lacey; 11-22-2011 at 05:03 AM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    Another thing to mention is that he makes this incredible noise which is a combination of moaning/screaming. All day long. Actually, here it is 11:30 at night, and I can hear him howling from inside their house to inside mine. He cries both indoors and outside. He wakes me up in the morning and is the last thing I hear at night.
    Oh, man, don't get me started. My ex used to live in a 2nd floor apartment in a 4-family house, and one of the people living next door had a beagle that they used to keep outside when the weather was warm enough. That dog used to exhibit the same type of behavior you describe above, at ALL hours of the day or night. Unfortunately, Animal Control in the city where he lived was useless; I don't know how many times we had to call the cops on his neighbors to get them to shut their dog up.

    When I read threads like these, I wonder how my oldest brother has managed to have 2 very well-behaved dogs that can be taken anywhere, can be trusted with anyone (including his 10 and 8 year old sons from the time they were infants), do exactly as they are told, don't bark unless absolutely necessary, and never were "crate trained". His first dog was a never-neutered male Golden-Samoyed-Norwegian Elkhound mix (looked exactly like a Black Lab), and his current dog is a female Golden Retriever.

  18. #78

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    We always have our dogs in pairs too. We feel better when they have a friend. The young one usually helps train up the youngin'.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  19. #79

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    It's possible to train a dog to be quiet. Put one hand around the muzzle and scruff with the other hand. That's how wolves silence your muzzle.

    Now all I have to do with my golden is move my hand down to muzzle her and she gets quiet.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    Puppy mills certainly contribute greatly to the need for shelters and rescue organizations, but I don't understand the reverse argument that rescues and shelters cause puppy mills. In fact, if there weren't shelters and rescue organziations where people were getting dogs right now, there probably would be even more people getting dogs via puppy mills.
    Pet stores are the real culprit here, they use puppy mills because it's cheap and made to order. Pet stores should not be allowed to sell puppies/dogs except as an associate of the SPCA or a rescue.

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