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  1. #41

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    One of the things I love about Jeremy is that he's not afraid to try different things, different music, different styles, different choreo. He's not afraid to mix it up, and he really commits to his movements.

    Anyway, once again, for me, he hits it out of the park with his programs this year. And he's 4-for-4 on his four most recent freeskates... truly loved them all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    but my biggest wish this year (other than Mirai being World Champ) is for Jeremey to finally win a World medal.
    Oh yes, yes, yes. Please? Pretty please?
    But no matter what happens, I will always enjoy watching him skate.
    Last edited by Cheylana; 11-09-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  2. #42
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    If Jeremy and Alissa both got on the medal stand at World's, I would be really, really happy.

  3. #43

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    I consider this LP very significant for Jeremy. It is truly about self- expression- he chose the music; he choreographed the program ( he and Yuko together, from what I understand). I've admired his poetic, deeply musical skating for a long time, but in this LP I feel that there is no barrier whatsoever between Jeremy's inner creativity and what he puts on ice. Very few skaters ever arrive at that. It was wonderful to see that missed jumps had no impact on the expressivity of his performance- perhaps because the program is so personal to him. That bodes well.
    So, from this gushing fan- You go Jeremy! What you do is magic!
    I really like his SP, as well ( agree with everybody, minus the suspenders). But that LP... is just special, even taking into the account that Jeremy's programs are always different and interesting.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  4. #44

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    There's never been any question in my mind that Jeremy is a brilliant skater, I personally think he has better basic skating skills and interpretation than, say, Patrick Chan. In a perfect world, Jeremy's PCS would reflect that.

    What Jeremy needs, is what he has always needed, to be a better competitor, especially late in the season. Lets hope that Jason and Yuko have worked their magic on him in the off-season. There were some mistakes in his CoC LP but he largely kept his focus even after the mistakes and that's a real good sign given his history.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Here's a link to universalsports clip of Jeremy's fp without commentary:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJ62MB4szA

    Plus you should be able to click on the full screen feature in lower right hand corner for your viewing pleasure.
    Thanks. By big screen, I meant my tv. (I have a small monitor.) But, this is an improvement. I hope I get to see him skate this clean and on my tv. I really love this program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
    If Jeremy and Alissa both got on the medal stand at World's, I would be really, really happy.
    I hope the skategods aren't listening, but I totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    What Jeremy needs, is what he has always needed, to be a better competitor, especially late in the season. Lets hope that Jason and Yuko have worked their magic on him in the off-season. There were some mistakes in his CoC LP but he largely kept his focus even after the mistakes and that's a real good sign given his history.
    ITA. His issues are primarily mental, not physical.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    I consider this LP very significant for Jeremy. It is truly about self- expression- he chose the music; he choreographed the program ( he and Yuko together, from what I understand). I've admired his poetic, deeply musical skating for a long time, but in this LP I feel that there is no barrier whatsoever between Jeremy's inner creativity and what he puts on ice. Very few skaters ever arrive at that. It was wonderful to see that missed jumps had no impact on the expressivity of his performance- perhaps because the program is so personal to him. That bodes well.
    So, from this gushing fan- You go Jeremy! What you do is magic!
    I really like his SP, as well ( agree with everybody, minus the suspenders). But that LP... is just special, even taking into the account that Jeremy's programs are always different and interesting.
    So well stated, and so beautifully put. Someone else also said that this might be the first program that allows Jeremy to mess up on the tech yet still feels satisfied at the end of the performance. And I so understand what they meant. He really gave it all with this program, from the start of the construction of it to the final manifestation of it on the ice in competition. The personal-ness, the privacy is exactly what makes this program so moving and captivating. Just transcendental..
    Last edited by shine; 11-10-2011 at 04:08 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I think Jeremey is just making it look too easy. ... But if you actually quantify what his blades are doing, the upper body movement- his program is PACKED...
    That's it -- and that actually is what figure skaters should do (make very difficult movements and technical elements and choreography look easy). Not everyone is capable of doing this and at the same time expressing subtle yet powerful emotion and interpreting complex music. I am impressed not only by Jeremy's creativity and soulful artistry, but also by his sublime musicality -- his mother (Allison Scott) mentioned in the manleywoman skatecast that he selects and arranges his own music. But, you're right Skittl1321, it's the deceptive ease with which Jeremy completes extremely difficult moves that I think is often overlooked (definitely was overlooked/ taken for granted last season). A good sign is the judges seeming to be recognizing Jeremy's superb artistry with higher PCS so far this season than those whose strengths are primarily jumps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
    If Jeremy and Alissa both got on the medal stand at World's, I would be really, really happy.


    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    There's never been any question in my mind that Jeremy is a brilliant skater, I personally think he has better basic skating skills and interpretation than, say, Patrick Chan. In a perfect world, Jeremy's PCS would reflect that.
    Absolutely!

    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    What Jeremy needs, is what he has always needed, to be a better competitor, especially late in the season. Lets hope that Jason and Yuko have worked their magic on him in the off-season. There were some mistakes in his CoC LP but he largely kept his focus even after the mistakes and that's a real good sign given his history.
    True, but Jeremy has shown the ability to be a tough competitor at Nats. I recall when he won his first Nat'l championship in 2009. In the sp, Jeremy had to skate early immediately after the anointed EL. It was as if the U.S. Fed was saying, "Prove to us that your GPF win was not a fluke." I was in the audience at Nats that year, and it was so great to see Jeremy nail that gorgeous sp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gawOg1JXgfQ (too bad this is w/ commentary, ugh SH)

    With that performance, Jeremy said, "Take that!" to his biggest competitor, since EL was the defending Nat'l champion at that competition. Jeremy has also competed well in the GPF, but yes, he needs to take it to another level at Worlds. Hopefully, he can stick the "must-have" quad that purports to demonstrate male cajones. In my view, Jeremy has already shown that and then some. I will just enjoy watching and cheering him on all season, no matter what judges do, nor what Hersh writes for provocation. You da man, Jeremy!

    That's Yuka, btw.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-10-2011 at 07:51 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    There's never been any question in my mind that Jeremy is a brilliant skater, I personally think he has better basic skating skills and interpretation than, say, Patrick Chan. In a perfect world, Jeremy's PCS would reflect that.
    Jeremy IS a brilliant skater. I've been watching that LP every day since CoC. He does have good SS and great IN but in what universe are his SS better than Chan's?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  9. #49
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    Not dissing Chan's fine blade work and ice coverage, but IMO there's no question that Jeremy is a better all-around skater than Patrick Chan because Jeremy's blade work is just as fine if not better, without calling attention to itself b/c it flows so effortlessly within the seamless whole of Jeremy's programs/ choreography. And because Jeremy has more difficult transitions than Chan, and above all, Jeremy feels and interprets the music waaaayyy better than Patrick Chan. Right now, of course, Chan maybe has more consistent quads and more rep with the judges. That's figure skating. But what Jeremy does and has is timeless, transcendant. As dinakt posted: "... there is no barrier whatsoever between Jeremy's inner creativity and what he puts on ice. Very few skaters ever arrive at that."

    IMHO, no matter how smooth his blade work, Chan for me has not reached the transcendant level b/c he lacks something, some genuine identity and connection. It seems to be all there and many seem to feel a connection with Chan's skating, but for me something's missing. (Perhaps Chan's dynamic ss tend to mask his lack of genuine on-ice identity, maturity and musicality). I'm not alone either .... Listen to Eurosport commentator after this program by Chan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTSgo2KbeT8&feature=fvst

    ETA:
    And, yes, I thought Chan should have won Worlds 2009 with this performance (he came in second behind guess who?)

    Eurosport commentator on Chan:
    "He's an outstanding talent, there's no doubt about that. Something in me doesn't quite get engaged by him, and I don't quite know what that is. So, you have to take it for what it is, and it is a special performance."
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-10-2011 at 07:37 AM.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    That's Yuka, btw.
    Of course I forever confuse A and O in Yuka Sato and Yuko Kavaguti. My bad.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Not dissing Chan's fine blade work and ice coverage, but IMO there's no question that Jeremy is a better all-around skater than Patrick Chan because Jeremy's blade work is just as fine if not better, without calling attention to itself b/c it flows so effortlessly within the seamless whole of Jeremy's programs/ choreography. And because Jeremy has more difficult transitions than Chan, and above all, Jeremy feels and interprets the music waaaayyy better than Patrick Chan. Right now, of course, Chan maybe has more consistent quads and more rep with the judges. That's figure skating. But what Jeremy does and has is timeless, transcendant.

    IMHO, no matter how smooth his blade work, Chan for me has not reached the transcendant level b/c he lacks something, some genuine identity and connection. It seems to be all there and many seem to feel a connection with Chan's skating, but for me something's missing. (Perhaps Chan's dynamic ss tend to mask his lack of genuine on-ice identity, maturity and musicality). I'm not alone either .... Listen to Eurosport commentator after this program by Chan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTSgo2KbeT8&feature=fvst

    ETA:
    And, yes, I thought Chan should have won Worlds 2009 with this performance (he came in second behind guess who?)

    Eurosport commentator on Chan:
    "He's an outstanding talent, there's no doubt about that. Something in me doesn't quite get engaged by him, and I don't quite know what that is. So, you have to take it for what it is, and it is a special performance."
    ITA .... I just much prefer Jeremy Abbott probably because I like his rather introspective style. He comes across as a very quiet, reflective and sensitive person ... don't know if he's like that in real life or if he's actually a party animal

  12. #52
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    Yes, Kelvster, unless we get to meet and spend time with people we might admire from a distance, all we know is what we see through their public performances, words, actions, interviews. And Twitter now too. But that's not too deep, most of the time. Altho' you might learn snippets from following. Still it's far removed from actually knowing a person. Here are a few of Jeremy's recent tweets, I think showing his sense of humor, friendships, general mindset.

    Not in chronological order:

    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    I'm selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to (cont) tl.gd/e2hmdf
    [Clicking on the link Jeremy provides, this turns out to be a quote by Marilyn Monroe, which continues: "... handle, but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." -M. Monroe]

    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    It's a delightfully rainy day. Typically they depress me, but something about today makes me want to put on my Dior trench and go for a walk.


    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    I just reread what I tweeted and am wondering how I possibly could have followers... #pointlesstweeting #labelwhore #tool


    Jeremy also retweets tweets by Rihanna and Lacey Schwimmer (who in turn are quoting others it seems):

    LaceySchwimmer Lacey Schwimmer
    Amen. RT @JeffreeStar: Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

    rihanna Rihanna
    “I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.” ― Kurt Cobain

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    You really need to get your eye sight tested.
    Classic... !

  14. #54
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    Yummy.

    I so wish that he could get the jumps together. I love his line, spins, footwork, artistry - all top notch.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Jeremy IS a brilliant skater. I've been watching that LP every day since CoC. He does have good SS and great IN but in what universe are his SS better than Chan's?
    Chan does have the best SS in the world, and arguably the best ever. And I do repsect the fact that he is pushing the envelope technically with his SS. But SS only gets you so far as a performer. Beyond SS, people are looking for more. I said in another thread that I feel like Chan makes everything look like an extraordinary skating exercise, and I'm wondering if somehow it's exactly that impeccable SS that is preventing him from being truly expressive and musical. His SS not just gets so much attention from the audience but from himself as well that everything else just seems vanilla once you get past the SS.
    Jeremy's SS is already quite brilliant as it is - perhaps not on the same level as Chan but Chan is a rare exception. Given any era, Jeremy's SS would be considered great. But as far as giving a performance and pushing the envolope artistcally, Chan does not even come close. So would I rather watch a skater like Abbott who maybe doesn't quite have Chan's SS but brings so much more of those intangible, unquantifiable qualities? Absolutely.
    Last edited by shine; 11-11-2011 at 02:49 AM.

  16. #56
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    I don't wanna compare skaters, but I must say when watching skating live, speed makes a huge difference. I can see why judges give higher PCS across 5 components for skaters who are fast. It's just very exciting to watch.

    On the other hand, the TV screen makes the little movements stand out more.

  17. #57
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    Speed is important in figure skating, but it is not everything. You can't be going at high speed all the time. Witness Carolina moderating her speed in order to refine her movement qualities and not rush through the jumps. When you are skating to and interpreting the music, a skater is not going to go at non-stop high speed across the ice. This sport is not speed skating. There are nuances and transitions (which Jeremy has in spades), and then there is speed as another important aspect needed to build toward launching into jumps. A mature program has to have all of that. I think Jeremy may need more speed going into his quad, but the requirements of the music for his particular program are also a factor. One of the most powerful moments in Jeremy's lp was when he came to a stop and bent forward touching the ice with one hand (in time to the music) paused for a moment, then lifted up, bent back with his arms out and his head facing to the sky, gliding backward.

    ITA, shine, that Chan's SS always get "so much attention from the audience [and] from himself as well that everything else just seems vanilla once you get past the SS." As I said previously, perhaps Chan's dynamic ss tend to mask his lack of genuine on-ice identity, maturity, and musicality. To me, Chan seems like a happy, eager kid who has been told one too many times what a great, wonderful, better than the rest skater he is. This is not true. Chan has great talents, and he is a champion skater, but he also has areas that he needs to work on, just as all skaters do. There's always the constant need for improvement and challenging yourself. Witness World champions S/S and their coach, Steuer, always mixing it up, going for difficulty and for the new and different, never resting on their laurels. That is what helps push the sport forward. Not over-praising and over-marking someone who may be more gifted than most in ss, while ignoring that individual's weaknesses.

    The way he's been marked its like telling Chan "Wow, those ss will bail you out every time. We are so mesmerized by your ss and you've added quads now so we might as well reserve the gold for you in every competition you enter, no matter how many mistakes you make." In 2009 at Worlds, when he skated well enough to win, it seemed the judges were sending Chan a message to stop the trash talking. Now, he can do no wrong, apparently.

    I would like to see good competition where everyone skates their best and makes it hard for the judges -- not competition where, oh well since Chan has "the best ss on the planet," it matters not what else he does or doesn't do. If everyone performs their jumps to their best, why should Chan's ss trump competitors such as Dai, Jeremy, or Kosuka (who have great transitions, better presentation skills and true artistry)?
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-11-2011 at 04:00 AM.

  18. #58
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    ^^^ especially at the bolded text.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Chan has great talents, and he is a champion skater, but he also has areas that he needs to work on, just as all skaters do.
    Where do you get the idea that Chan thought he is the best and doesn't need to improve? He said he'd try to improve his expression this year instead of just focusing on improving the technical elements as much as before.

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    Well, Jeremy's my favorite skater, but I think you are selling Chan a little bit short. The kid is young, but he is smart and he has a smart coach. He is working with Jeremy's long-time modern dance teacher, for one thing, and I saw some big improvements over last year in his current long program movement.

    The thing about Jeremy is that as early as you can go back in the video record, as young as he was, the artistry was strong and mature. His musicality and "movement repertoire" as a dancer is truly outstanding. This year's programs are a wonderful, natural maturing of his style. I love them both. I'd bet that the LP (or FS) continues to grow, too.

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