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  1. #1
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    Unusual jump combo... inspiration from the past

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otH4E...eature=related

    Toller Cranston -- La Rondine (I even love the way he bows at the end)
    check out the combo at 1:52 - 1:57 and in slo-mo at 4:21 - 4:31
    A one-foot axel into a double salchow! ** May sound simple but it can't be easy to perform. For me interesting combination jumps like this, as well as creative moves (which this program is full of) and transitions in and out of jumps (a la Jeremy Abbott and Matt Savoie) are more compelling and unique than that "danged" extra quad revolution, which mostly for me just detracts from a program, and the extra revolution is just the blink of an eye. I Don't Care!!!

    But I do wish more skaters would be inspired by watching past skating programs to incorporate unusual combo jumps and unique moves into their programs. Tired of the cookie cutter elements. Also, what are some other unique and difficult combos besides 3loop, 3loop?

    BTW, a delayed single axel, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNImLRliFU a la Charlie Tickner (no stalking of jumps in that program), IMO, is so much more pleasing to the eye than a 3-axel (unless it's one of Johnny's gorgeous 3-axels )

    **ETA: reminded from the Skate Journal link posted below by Sylvia, that Jill Trenary performed a one-foot axel, 3-salchow in her 1990 lp.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-08-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Skatejournal's compilation-in-progress of "Unique and Interesting Skating Elements" (includes video clips): http://www.skatejournal.com/unique.html

    Rohene Ward Audition Video #1 (spirals, spins, cantilever, footwork): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA27GFWr-3k

    Rohene Ward Audition Video #2 (spins as well as jump sequences in both directions, including 2Axel): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC1-havgrIk
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-08-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  3. #3
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    Unless the ISU would consider a "choreographic jump sequence" in the long program, it all comes down to the points, and I'm afraid these more unusual sequences will not be seen in today's programs.

    Keep in mind we are seeing more half-loop+3 salchow combinations/"sequences" these days because they're being rewarded more (now considered a 3 jump combination)

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Unless the ISU would consider a "choreographic jump sequence" in the long program,
    I would love something like that.

    A few years ago I came up with some possible features for jump sequences with low- or nonrotational jumps to earn levels, with level 1 being worth not much and level 4 more than a double axel. If it's a choreo sequence, which seems to be the trend lately, then difficulty wouldn't matter, except maybe in GOEs.

    Either way, it could take the place of a jumping pass or a sequence.

    But what about double jumps (other than double axel)? They're comparatively rare in senior competition but some of the lesser jumpers will use some of their regular jump passes for doubles if they don't have enough triples. In juniors, many skaters below the top ranks don't have enough triples to fill all the jump passes.

    So I probably wouldn't want to see sequences with double jumps relegated to choreo sequences when they're actually harder than what some international competitors are doing for standard jump passes.

    On the other hand, it would be nice to give the strong jumpers the option to do something creative with jumps that are easy for them and get rewarded for it without having to give up one of their triple jump passes.

    If choreo jump sequence or leveled small jump sequence is a kind of sequence that substitutes for a second step sequence instead of for a jump pass, then the good jumpers can do it in addition to their regular jumps.

    If it is in place of a triple jump pass and allows double jumps, then I'd want to build in extra points for doing jumps in opposite directions, maybe for double jumps with inside edge landings on the other foot, and so forth.

    And the +GOEs should be large enough that there's appropriate reward for including single jumps with difficult air positions like split-flip or split lutz or delayed axel

  5. #5
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    Here's a pretty and simple, not elaborate jump from Midori Ito, with steps going into it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGasODrAcU 1:41 - 1:48

    Who do you recall Seerek, performing half-loop, 3 salchow? That's another interesting combo. With IJS constantly re-assessing, it might be possible, IMO, to allow for more unique combinations. The sport should be about evolving in ways that enhance the sport and art of figure skating. To me, the issue right now is that the points-gathering system has created a number of problems, including cookie cutter programs, and skaters leaving out jumps they find difficult to do (and I ain't talking about the quad either, which is just an extra revolution).

    I'm talking about skaters including at least one of every skating repertoire jump in their free programs (whether it be a single, double or triple) axel, lutz, loop, flip, salchow, toe. Forget about requiring quads (unless they want to set up a separate jumping contest for quads and quad combos). I know the quad isn't going away, but more needs to be done about studying how it affects skaters' bodies, the physics of trying to do them (height and quick revolutions are the key, but it also seems to be an energy, timing and mental hurdle connected with the layout and flow of a program), how it impacts programs, training, and other jumps.

    The jumps and the athletic side are very important in fs, but the art should not take a back seat either, and unfortunately that's what usually happens. Young up-and-comers with jumps are generally rewarded more, while the attitude toward artistry is okay if you have it (a la Jason Brown) but the jumps come first (as in, he's got to have that 3-axel down -- yes he does in today's men's field -- but now the quad too, mon dieu, -- pls don't lose artistry in the process). I think jumps and artistry are needed for a well-rounded skater, and for the growth of the sport. Yuzuru Hanyu is a gifted prodigy with artistry and amazing jumps, but his endurance and pacing are not good, plus he still needs to mature artistically. Brezina came first with the jumps, and he's still trying to catch up with the artistry. Gachinski has bravura jumps, but needs a lot of work on developing artistry, and not just through camouflage (Has he taken ballet??? He's Russian after all). Oda has amazing height on his jumps, but he strings them together cluelessly with no artistry (even though the judges seem so blinded by the jumps, they pump up his PCS). I agree with those who feel that Nan Song should have scored higher than Oda at CoC -- While Song needs work on artistry too, his program was much better conceived and performed than Oda's.

  6. #6
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    Double post
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-09-2011 at 12:34 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    Who do you recall Seerek, performing half-loop, 3 salchow?
    Chan, for one, does triple lutz, half-loop, triple salchow. Rippon, among others, is also trying it this year.

    Also, Rochette did some beautiful triple toe, half-loop, triple salchow combos/sequences.

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    Jason Thomas used to do triple lutz, landing on the left foot and tapping into another triple lutz.

    Beat that O.O

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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Jason Thomas used to do triple lutz, landing on the left foot and tapping into another triple lutz.

    Beat that O.O
    Is there any video? Thomas was a talented young skater from the Chicago area who placed 6th in Novice at 2009 U.S. Nationals. Last I heard, he was hoping to represent India internationally but I'm not sure he has competed since 2009?

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    Yes, I'd love to see that ... very interesting as the lutz is a difficult jump by itself.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    ...

    Rohene Ward Audition Video #1 (spirals, spins, cantilever, footwork): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA27GFWr-3k

    Rohene Ward Audition Video #2 (spins as well as jump sequences in both directions, including 2Axel): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC1-havgrIk
    Rohene! Haven't seen him in a long time ... he's sporting beard and bushy 'fro (or is it a form of flat-top Mohawk? I can't get a clear look).

  12. #12
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    Emily Hughes used to do a one foot axel in a triple salchow in her junior programs.

    She also used to a charlotte into her combo spin or layback. She also invented the shoot the duck position on her sit spin.

    Another one I would say, was Midori Ito's double loop-triple loop combo. Who even did that ever?
    Last edited by smarts1; 11-09-2011 at 02:07 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Is there any video? Thomas was a talented young skater from the Chicago area who placed 6th in Novice at 2009 U.S. Nationals. Last I heard, he was hoping to represent India internationally but I'm not sure he has competed since 2009?
    I don't think I've seen a video of it, not sure that he even got credit for it as a combination which is unfortunate!!

    Last I heard he is done skating, but I don't know him personally!


    BTW Rohene's hair is.... how do I say this. Like Rihanna

  14. #14
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    ^^ Would love to see that up close and personal. Is Rohene skating in shows in Europe now?

    smarts1, not sure about 2loop, 3loop, but Lipinski of course made famous the 3loop, 3loop.

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    Jill Trenary did a single axel into a double jump (off the landing foot); can't remember the second jump. I second the motion for rewarding innovative jump combos.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Would love to see that up close and personal. Is Rohene skating in shows in Europe now?

    Yup. During competition season he does shows, and in the off-season he works as a choreographer, at least afaik.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey2 View Post
    Jill Trenary did a single axel into a double jump (off the landing foot); can't remember the second jump. I second the motion for rewarding innovative jump combos.
    Up thread it is noted in my edited first post: Jill did a one-foot axel into a 3-salchow

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Emily Hughes used to do a one foot axel in a triple salchow in her junior programs.

    She also used to a charlotte into her combo spin or layback. She also invented the shoot the duck position on her sit spin.

    Another one I would say, was Midori Ito's double loop-triple loop combo. Who even did that ever?
    Do you mean her layover back sit? I thought the goal of any sit spin was to hit a shoot the duck position. I may be misunderstanding your post though...
    I've always liked the triple flip after the half loop (triple lutz half loop triple flip). Anyone on ice doing a double loop that lands on the inside back edge of the other foot yet? (half loop with an extra rotation in it). How would it be judged? It's obviously harder than a half loop but what would happen in a three jump combo?
    Last edited by Ozzisk8tr; 11-09-2011 at 02:41 AM.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey2 View Post
    Jill Trenary did a single axel into a double jump (off the landing foot); can't remember the second jump. I second the motion for rewarding innovative jump combos.
    She did a one foot axel (landing on the same leg) into a triple salchow.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Emily Hughes used to do a one foot axel in a triple salchow in her junior programs.

    She also used to a charlotte into her combo spin or layback. She also invented the shoot the duck position on her sit spin.

    Another one I would say, was Midori Ito's double loop-triple loop combo. Who even did that ever?
    I don't think she invented that. Skaters have been doing sit spin in a shoot the duck position for a while. Paul Wylie used to do a great one.

    Another jump combination- I don't know if this has been mentioned yet- Plushenko used to do a triple axel-half loop-triple flip, which is insanely difficult.

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