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  1. #21

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    If they are supporting their family without social assistance or charity, and the kids are well-looked after, then I don't see where it's any of my business how many kids they have. Look at it another way...they're helping to ensure the population of tax-paying citizens remains enought to pay for gov't deficits.
    Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...

  2. #22
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    The radio station I was listening to on the way to work this morning said that this was a "feel-good breaking news story." I sat there thinking the entire time they were covering it.

  3. #23
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    I've always been a little puzzled as to why people get so upset about this family. Whatever happened to "live and let live"?
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  4. #24
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    I'd be real interested to revisit this family in 20 years to see how all these children turned out. I bet more than a few PHd thesis' will be written about this family

  5. #25
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    Bet they'll be better-off mentally than any children unfortunate enough to be born to some OTHER reality-show families (God help us if the Jersey Shore people ever reproduce.) At least their parents, to all appearances, love each other, love their children, and aren't having screaming matches for the cameras, locking each other out, and Daddy hasn't taken off to spend his network checks on hookers and blow.

    Since they're not sucking up my tax dollars or teaching their children to do likewise, or literally whoring themselves out with sex videos and begging for millions in wedding gifts, mazel tov. It's her health and her baby, not my business to tell her what risks to take.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I've always been a little puzzled as to why people get so upset about this family. Whatever happened to "live and let live"?
    I think one of the issues is that their older kids don't really get a choice to not become surrogate parents, minding the kids, doing the chores, etc. here. The simple fact is that two parents cannot take care of 20 kids on their own and give each child enough attention. Yes, kids should help around the house; however, these kids live an extremely regimented life. Are they happy? Possibly. But are they missing out on many things kids their own age do while they live in the tribe? Probably.

    I was born to a 45 year old mother, turned out fine. However, I'm 53, and my mother died 25 years ago in her early 70s - barely lived long enough to see me get married. And as a former OB/Gyn, I can tell you that human beings are not designed to produce so many babies. After her last pregnancy, she has a fairly high risk to die in childbirth. And what personally chaps my hide is that her husband will likely mourn, but declare it "God's will" and find some (younger) gullible little evangelical to marry and perpetuate the whole process with again.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  7. #27
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    Older kids raising/helping raise younger kids just happens in big families. Dad's older sisters had to help with him and his younger brother, since their mother died not long after the youngest was born. (They had another sibling die of whooping cough. Just happened in those days.) That's just how it goes.

    Again, they're self-sufficient and have been since before they had the show, so none of my business. Now, if you're sucking up welfare checks, I think you should face a choice of no assistance or a tubal. But if you're paying for it, it's your life.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really View Post
    If they are supporting their family without social assistance or charity, and the kids are well-looked after, then I don't see where it's any of my business how many kids they have. Look at it another way...they're helping to ensure the population of tax-paying citizens remains enought to pay for gov't deficits.
    I do agree with you that it isn't a big deal that they do what they do. It doesn't really even bother me that they have a reality tv show, I'm sure they have a built-in audience, and it will probably help take care of the family for years.

    However, they do receive significant tax breaks and benefits a typical family would not. I remember reading that they pay no property tax on their home because it is considered a "church" with residential occupants. Of course it's nothing illegal, but it is certainly using significant loopholes.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Again, they're self-sufficient and have been since before they had the show, so none of my business. Now, if you're sucking up welfare checks, I think you should face a choice of no assistance or a tubal. But if you're paying for it, it's your life.
    They haven't received welfare, but they received plenty of state assistance when Josie was in the hospital. All micro-premies are entitled to it, but you don't have to take it...

    I don't know what their current situation is, but they previously have said they do not have insurance for most/all of their children, and use the ER for all treatment (that may have been the Bateses now that I think about it...) Obviously we've seen Josie get routine check ups, but those very well may have been covered by the state assistance she got.

    And if TLC hadn't come to rescue them when their rental home was destroyed, and their house was only 1/4 built, I don't think we'd be saying they are self-sufficient.

    My biggest problem is the way they present themselves as being so "Christian" and yet they lie like crazy. My favorite is when they say they don't know what "Quiverfull" is, and yet early links to their website show a link to a quiverfull site. I also think the Gothard guy that they follow is dangerous, and I feel terrible for their children.
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 11-08-2011 at 06:28 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    And what personally chaps my hide is that her husband will likely mourn, but declare it "God's will" and find some (younger) gullible little evangelical to marry and perpetuate the whole process with again.
    I was actually thinking about what you were saying until this.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  11. #31

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    I think when you put yourself out there on reality television like this family has, you basically open yourself up to criticism. I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions about the Duggar's. I don't have to agree with every opinion, but I think they are fair game, just as much as the Jersey Shore cast, The Real Housewives, Jon and Kate and their 8...
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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    They haven't received welfare, but they received plenty of state assistance when Josie was in the hospital. All micro-premies are entitled to it, but you don't have to take it...

    I don't know what their current situation is, but they previously have said they do not have insurance for most/all of their children, and use the ER for all treatment (that may have been the Bateses now that I think about it...) Obviously we've seen Josie get routine check ups, but those very well may have been covered by the state assistance she got.
    All micro-preemies are automatically covered under Medicaid for the first year or two, regardless of income. Or at least that's what I'm given to understand. And I won't fault the Duggars for using it. They may be relatively well-off, but having an infant in NICU for months on end is super expensive, and only the very wealthy would be able to absorb that cost without assistance.

    And yes, it is the Bateses who use the ER for treatment. The Duggars have a high deductible plan, as of a few years ago anyway.

  13. #33
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    While I had hoped they were done, I knew when it was announced that the family they are friends with was expecting #19 there would be a rush to get #20 here and soon.

    I have no problem with Jim Bob and Michelle living their lives as they want to live them. That is their choice. I do have issues with the way they raise their children and how they have basically removed most hope for these 19 going on 20 children to live normal, productive, and even self-sufficient lives. The oldest, who is married with two children of his own, still lives in a property that was owned by his grandparents and runs a car lot that is still on paper the property of his father. The children aren't being educated or allowed to prepare for an actual career. It is more important to this family to be surrounded by like minded people than enjoy a healthy debate or hear an opposing opinion.

    As for the Duggars living without assistance now, they are certainly helped by being on television. I know the family they hang out with in Tennessee has come under a lot of criticisim lately for their 18 children with one on the way. They admitted they don't have health insurance for the children and use ER's as their primary means of healthcare. One of the older sons started his own lawncare business and is providing money to his parents because they can't afford such a house full of children.

    I hope Michelle has a healthy pregnancy and that the baby is healthy too. The daughters deserve that much since their role in child raising goes far beyond chores of a normal or large size family to me.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really View Post
    If they are supporting their family without social assistance or charity, and the kids are well-looked after, then I don't see where it's any of my business how many kids they have. Look at it another way...they're helping to ensure the population of tax-paying citizens remains enought to pay for gov't deficits.
    I'm sure those children are all mentally balanced and feel loved and looked after.

  15. #35

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    Well, I wish them a healthy baby and congratulate them because this is what they want.

    It's none of my business (or anyone else's) how many kids they have if they are able to support them all. How many children you have or don't have is a personal decision and if they believe all of their children are sent by God that's their prerogative.
    The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are--Joseph Campbell

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Older kids raising/helping raise younger kids just happens in big families.
    Yes, it does. But the patriarchal/Quiverfull mentality -- which I've researched a bit recently -- is harmful because it essentially teaches that the girls, simply by virtue of being girls, have no right to lives of their own until they marry (and not even then, really). So it doesn't matter if they're overworked and allowed no time for friends or relaxation or any sort of personal life. If you're really interested in the mindset, Hillary McFarland's Quivering Daughters is a must-read. She grew up in just such a household, and when she finally got up enough courage to go live on her own as an adult, her family acted like the universe was about to cave in.

    All that said, I hope the new Duggar baby will be healthy and that the mother will be fine.
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  17. #37

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    I've always respected the Duggars but worry for this pregnancy. What are her chances of having a normal L&D given all the problems they had with little Josie?
    "awwww....shades of Janet Lynn" - Dick Button on anyone who makes more than one mistake in their program.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I've always been a little puzzled as to why people get so upset about this family. Whatever happened to "live and let live"?
    I'm inclined to agree with this, but then again as someone mentioned upthread they do have a reality show and therefore, as public figures, have made themselves fair game for criticism. I do wonder about the health and safety of Michelle and little Duggar #20. Wishing them a safe pregnancy and birth.

    I'm amazed at Michelle's perpetual fertility... 45 years old yet still has the ovaries of a champion!
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I'm amazed at Michelle's perpetual fertility... 45 years old yet still has the ovaries of a champion!
    I'm on board with the thought that she had fertility treatments that I've seen all over the internet. This is the longest they've ever gone between pregnancies, I think.

    Kelly Bates is on progesterone treatments to maintain her pregnancy.

    So while it is "God's Will" for them to have as many kids as possible (which they of course help along in every possible way, weaning the kids off breastfeeding early- though I agree, you don't have to breastfeed at all if you don't want), it apparently isn't up to God for them to not have kids.

    It reminds me of the joke of the guy in the hurricane , and a man comes by and offers him a ride, but he doesn't go saying God will save him, and then while he is stranded in flood waters a boat comes by, but he says God will save him, and then he is stranded on his roof top with the rising flood, and a helicopter comes by, but he says God will save him, and then at the Pearly Gates he said "God, why didn't you save me?" and God says "I tried 3 times!". Was Josie's medical problems not a sign to them? And instead she is just being cared for by Jill, tossed aside by her "mother" so that the next precious flower can be the spotlight. (Jordyn is the most unfortunate of all of them. When I watched the show I felt so bad for her, it's like she doesn't recognize who her Mom is. And poor Joy, with no joy left...)

    Perhaps Michelle wants to die a martyr to the Gothard cause rather than face a life where she can't always be bearing children, the only thing she's ever done...

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtisticFan View Post
    The children aren't being educated or allowed to prepare for an actual career.
    Not only that, they've had their childhoods stolen from them. Did you see Michelle wakeboarding? She's highly athletic, and as a kid her parents fostered that in her- she got to roller skate, she got to cheerlead... she got to do all kinds of things she isn't allowing her kids to do.

    Okay, I'm done now.

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