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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Do some of you purposely leave out words in the article so it reads the way you want.
    PJ said

    Note the bolded words - for me. She didn't say Kwan was the first skater EVER, only that Kwan was the first for her! Sheesh people, give the woman a break and read what it actually there without putting such a spin on it.

    Oh yeah, I forgot, this is FSU and we like to put our own spin on things
    Sorry, this makes no sense to me. The entire article was an opinion piece, so the "to me" is implied and gratuitous. She invites people to give their opinion if they disagree, and when they do, you jump all over them accusing them of "spin" wth spin? The word doesn't even make sense given the contact. To me.

  2. #62
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    I don't know if we could call Sarah Hughes a one hit wonder. I mean, it's not as if she was really inconsistent and won by landing all of her difficulties by miracle, just once !
    She was a very consistent skater, she didn't win before because other skaters were better, and she won the Olympics because others made mistakes.

  3. #63
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    This may come as a shock for people but for some Sarah Hughes is more memorable than Kristi Yamuguchi.

    What does that mean? Nothing more than your list would be different from her list. I wonder if people can do that without calling her stupid, a hack and other kind things that have been said.

    Last thought. I find it how she gets blasted for a Canadian-centric list (3 of the ten are Canadian) and some suggestions are to replace them with a bunch of American women. Pot meet kettle.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    This may come as a shock for people but for some Sarah Hughes is more memorable than Kristi Yamuguchi.

    What does that mean? Nothing more than your list would be different from her list. I wonder if people can do that without calling her stupid, a hack and other kind things that have been said.

    Last thought. I find it how she gets blasted for a Canadian-centric list (3 of the ten are Canadian) and some suggestions are to replace them with a bunch of American women. Pot meet kettle.

    Come on Marbri, 3 Canadian ladies and only one lady from Japan. Historically ladies has been Canada's weakest discipline. Well the US probably historically although not recently has been the best country in ladies.

    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I don't know if we could call Sarah Hughes a one hit wonder. I mean, it's not as if she was really inconsistent and won by landing all of her difficulties by miracle, just once !
    She was a very consistent skater, she didn't win before because other skaters were better, and she won the Olympics because others made mistakes.
    She's a one hit wonder in terms of winning a big event. This doesn't mean her win was ridiculous or not undeserved. It would be one thing if Hughes repeatedly beat the same top skaters because of their inconsistency. Than I would say like Tara (who beat Michelle) quite a lot, that there was "nothing one hit wonder about it."

    But I don't see how a skater who basically had the stars align, but was not really the best skater of her era, can be called a top 10 skater. Especially over Slutskaya. Who once again beat Hughes a lot more than Hughes beat her.

    I mean obviously Hughes skated well over the years and so when the other two messed up, the judges could say there's nothing flukish about her skating well.. But Hughes got very lucky that Kwan and Irina had off nights. (while maybe not so Irina given Irina's skate in Torino, and Nagano) But Kwan, absolutely.
    Last edited by bek; 11-05-2011 at 02:48 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Last thought. I find it how she gets blasted for a Canadian-centric list (3 of the ten are Canadian) and some suggestions are to replace them with a bunch of American women. Pot meet kettle.
    I don't remember anyone saying that Barbara Ann Scott doesn't belong on the greatest list, although there's a case for Sonja Henie being number one. I'm afraid Karen Magnussen is in the "Who?" category too often.

    Most of the suggested changes are to drop Manley and Hughes, which is one Canadian and one American. (The majority complaint about Kwan is in Kwong's argument for her and tongue bath for Lori Nichol, not that she shouldn't be on a top 10 list.) If there's a suggestion to replace Manley with Fleming, Hamill, or Yamaguchi, maybe that is because each was a World champion -- multiple times for Fleming and Yamaguchi -- and Olympic champion, and Manley, unlike Lynn, who also never won a championship title, wasn't the reason for a major change in the scoring system (the creation of the short program and the lessening of value for the school figures). It's not like people are arguing that Sasha Cohen -- also a World and Olympic silver medalist -- or Rachael Flatt should replace Elizabeth Manley.

    That said, Kwong has every right to her top 10 list and her reasoning for it.
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I don't remember anyone saying that Barbara Ann Scott doesn't belong on the greatest list, although there's a case for Sonja Henie being number one. I'm afraid Karen Magnussen is in the "Who?" category too often.
    Exactly. I actually do think Magnussen should be considered as someone who was a bit more robbed in the whole Trixie situation than Lynn. Although I will say that I have a hard time considering anyone robbed because figure skating was part of the sport. But one could argue (free skating was too). Its not like Janet was just behind Trixie in figures. Perhaps if the sport had wanted a more well rounded champ, it should have been Magnussen then Holmes.

  7. #67
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    Oy, I can't believe I left Heiss, five-time World champion and Olympic champion off that list.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Last thought. I find it how she gets blasted for a Canadian-centric list (3 of the ten are Canadian) and some suggestions are to replace them with a bunch of American women. Pot meet kettle.
    it might be if us ladies didn't dominate the field with more wins than any other nation. It's like you're laughing at people for suggesting that a top 10 pairs list have more than one or two russians on it.
    If one finds us ladies or shouldn't matter, they still have more skating medals/titles than god himself

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Sorry, this makes no sense to me. The entire article was an opinion piece, so the "to me" is implied and gratuitous. She invites people to give their opinion if they disagree, and when they do, you jump all over them accusing them of "spin" wth spin?
    That's because some posters apparently find it difficult to understand the difference between "preference" and "ignorance". Plus, as marbri pointed out, PJ Kwong's not the one who's being lemon-y.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Come on Marbri, 3 Canadian ladies and only one lady from Japan. Historically ladies has been Canada's weakest discipline. Well the US probably historically although not recently has been the best country in ladies.

    Hardly shocking that you would miss the point.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKPRINCESS View Post
    That's because some posters apparently find it difficult to understand the difference between "preference" and "ignorance". Plus, as marbri pointed out, PJ Kwong's not the one who's being lemon-y.
    I'm trying to picture a "lemon-y" top 10 list, although I'm sure FSU could manage one! Would it go something like; "Despite her lobster-claw hands and cheesy sense of musicality, Witt makes my top 10 because she was a true champion who stood up while vastly more talented skaters faltered.", or "Although she skated seemingly the same program in the same dress for like 20 years, Kwan managed to be America's most decorated skater despite slow spins and easy jump combinations" ?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Hardly shocking that you would miss the point.
    I think what some are saying is that it's just that some of the best and biggest names in ladies skating in happened to come from the U.S. It's not that it would be better that PJ Kwong named Americans instead of Canadians, it's that some of the Americans named really are considered some of the best. That's when people assumed Kwong was making a top ten of all-time as opposed to a fantasy competition with her own personal favorites. Of course speaking of great ladies from the U.S., the theme of this thread is that Hughes isn't one of them.
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  13. #73

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    I think if we made a personal top 10 list, we'd all have one or two skaters that lots of others would have serious WTF moments. I wouldn't believe a personal favorite list that was all consistently good skaters who are all World and Olympic medalists. I would look at that and say, this person isn't a real fan.

    For example, my personal favorite list would include Butyrskaya. I understand how many would mock that choice, but you know what, I loves her. I loves her stiff knees, her temper tantrums, her funky landings and her often questionable taste in costumes, but watching her brings me joy. Whatever it is in skating that makes you feel connected to the sport, she had it for me.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think what some are saying is that it's just that some of the best and biggest names in ladies skating in happened to come from the U.S. It's not that it would be better that PJ Kwong named Americans instead of Canadians, it's that some of the Americans named really are considered some of the best. That's when people assumed Kwong was making a top ten of all-time as opposed to a fantasy competition with her own personal favorites. Of course speaking of great ladies from the U.S., the theme of this thread is that Hughes isn't one of them.
    So what you´re saying is that people got all because they weren't able to read the article properly


    Btw Matryeshka I totally get why you liked Butyrskaya. My favourite Russian lady, loved watching her skate.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    I think if we made a personal top 10 list, we'd all have one or two skaters that lots of others would have serious WTF moments. I wouldn't believe a personal favorite list that was all consistently good skaters who are all World and Olympic medalists. I would look at that and say, this person isn't a real fan.
    This.


    I can't wait to see PJ's top10 Men list.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post
    For example, my personal favorite list would include Butyrskaya. I understand how many would mock that choice, but you know what, I loves her. I loves her stiff knees, her temper tantrums, her funky landings and her often questionable taste in costumes, but watching her brings me joy. Whatever it is in skating that makes you feel connected to the sport, she had it for me.
    BUTE FTW!

  17. #77
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    Whether it's a personal fantasy list or not, it's hard to taker her seriously as a figure skating commentator after a list like this. If an historian said his/her favorite American presidents were George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Richard Nixon, I'd think, ok, that's obviously a personal list, and this is subjective, but you obviously have an agenda, and you're not really credible. The same goes here: her national pride clouds her ability to discern figure skating talent.

  18. #78
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    What?! No Jennnifer Robinson? THE "Top 10 JenRo"? The girl is an epitome of Top-10-ness! Roll over Kwan, you failed to win a single Olympic gold anyway. Make way for JenRo!

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    I can't wait to see PJ's top10 Men list.
    1. Patrick Chan
    2. Kurt Browning
    3. Brian Orser
    4. Don Jackson
    5. Vern Taylor
    6. Elvis Stoyko
    7. Jeff Buttle
    8. Eman Sandu
    9. Dick Button
    10. Phillippe Candeloro (she liked when he took his shirt off)

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    1. Patrick Chan
    2. Kurt Browning
    3. Brian Orser
    4. Don Jackson
    5. Vern Taylor
    6. Elvis Stoyko
    7. Jeff Buttle
    8. Eman Sandu
    9. Dick Button
    10. Phillippe Candeloro (she liked when he took his shirt off)
    9. Dick who ??? I think her choice was Sebastien Britten, and really, I think she is right, because I loved his skating !

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