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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Dunno how it works elsewhere, but here, in this sort of case, a DNA test is the first step. There is no futzing around with details and eyewitnesses; either he is or he ain't.

    There are complicated situations that go beyond DNA, but in this case, none of them would apply.
    The mother of my brother's son tried to sue him for back child support for her daughter several years ago. The daughter was seven months old when my brother met the woman. The court simply ordered the DNA test. It came back that she was not my brother's child, and the woman then had to pay all the court and testing costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    No matter how old Justin Bieber is now (17?) he looks 14 at best. I'm guessing a year ago he looked ever younger. As much as I can understand (or at least try) being blinded by someone's celebrity, I can't understand being sexually attracted to someone who looks so young.
    On the flip side, I can't imagine having sex with Keith Richards. He looks like a zombie. But women do.

    I can think of a lot more examples. Sexual attraction, IF there is sexual attraction, is mostly between the ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    The girl in question I think is full of shit. Even if he's sexually active (eek), why on earth would he choose to have his first time with a random weird chick when he has Selena Gomez?
    For the same reason that so many other men cheat on women other people think are too pretty to cheat on? It's like adultery--men don't cheat because of the way their women look; they cheat because of the way the other women make them feel. If he gets off on quickies with strangers, Selena isn't going to do it for him all the time, no matter what.

    And if he isn't sexually active, he and Selena sure must take a lot of cold showers: http://thejustinbiebershrine.com/wp-...ui-beach-9.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    The court simply ordered the DNA test.
    And I am sure Justin Bieber will have to take one, too, whether he likes it or not.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    And if he isn't sexually active, he and Selena sure must take a lot of cold showers: http://thejustinbiebershrine.com/wp-...ui-beach-9.jpg
    Clicked on that link to see salacious Bieber/Gomez pics and I get nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Clicked on that link to see salacious Bieber/Gomez pics and I get nothing.
    LOL! It's not that salacious.

    http://www.justinbieberzone.com/2011...-hawaii-beach/

    But if my daughter were in Selena's position, I wouldn't be thinking "Aw, it's a good thing he looks 14 and I can be sure nothing is happening there I need to worry about."
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    It would only be a misdemeanor in the paternity case too
    So would he have to pay support?

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    IMO, the biological father owes the child some level of support, no matter what.
    Even if the woman raped the man?

    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Under the law (whether anyone agrees with it or not) a parent is legally obligated to support his or her biological children unless they've been given up for adoption.
    Again, is this true if the woman got pregnant by rape?

    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    The girl in question I think is full of shit.
    Me too.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Again, is this true if the woman got pregnant by rape?
    Yes. The circumstances of a pregnancy don't matter. The law focuses on the child.
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  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Yes. The circumstances of a pregnancy don't matter. The law focuses on the child.
    Then wouldn't the law means test the rapist mother first? I think it's disgusting that a woman could get rewarded for rape - especially if she raped to get pregnant. And the law doesn't do anything to ensure child support goes to the child, so it doesn't really focus on the child, it focuses on the mother.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I can think of a lot more examples. Sexual attraction, IF there is sexual attraction, is mostly between the ears.
    And that's exactly why my brain malfunctions if I'm trying to think Justin Bieber might be having sex.

    For the same reason that so many other men cheat on women other people think are too pretty to cheat on? It's like adultery--men don't cheat because of the way their women look; they cheat because of the way the other women make them feel. If he gets off on quickies with strangers, Selena isn't going to do it for him all the time, no matter what.
    True, but if that was supposed to be his "first time" according to the girl. One of the reasons why I think she's full of it. My dream first time is in a public bathroom with a weird stranger and I'm not going to wear a condom because it sounds like such a fascinating experience I was to fully feel the whole 30 seconds of it.

    Now if someone could pass me a bottle of brain bleach.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    And that's exactly why my brain malfunctions if I'm trying to think Justin Bieber might be having sex.

    True, but if that was supposed to be his "first time" according to the girl. One of the reasons why I think she's full of it. My dream first time is in a public bathroom with a weird stranger and I'm not going to wear a condom because it sounds like such a fascinating experience I was to fully feel the whole 30 seconds of it.

    Now if someone could pass me a bottle of brain bleach.
    She would have sounded a tiny bit less full of shit if she had left out that it was his full time. Still full of shit, but a small bit less so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    True, but if that was supposed to be his "first time" according to the girl. One of the reasons why I think she's full of it. My dream first time is in a public bathroom with a weird stranger and I'm not going to wear a condom because it sounds like such a fascinating experience I was to fully feel the whole 30 seconds of it.
    Oddly enough, I don't find it at all hard to believe that a teenage boy would have a first time like that. Or that he would claim it was his first time even if maybe it wasn't.

    Which is not to say I don't think she's full of it. Just that I don't find any of these details all that hard to believe.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Then wouldn't the law means test the rapist mother first? I think it's disgusting that a woman could get rewarded for rape - especially if she raped to get pregnant. And the law doesn't do anything to ensure child support goes to the child, so it doesn't really focus on the child, it focuses on the mother.
    Do a lot of women rape men in China or Australia? It has happened here in the US but it's pretty rare and it's even rarer to result in pregnancy.
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  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Then wouldn't the law means test the rapist mother first? I think it's disgusting that a woman could get rewarded for rape - especially if she raped to get pregnant. And the law doesn't do anything to ensure child support goes to the child, so it doesn't really focus on the child, it focuses on the mother.
    Two points. First, courts no longer treat statutory rape, especially involving a 17 year old, the way they treat real rape (such as cases involving force or people who are mentally incapable of consent). If the ages were switched, do you think a 20 year old male who has consensual sex with a 17 year old female should have the same sentence as a guy who forced her to have sex?

    Second, child support goes to the person with custody. If, for some reason (such as the mother is legally unfit) the child is with grandparents, then the father pays child support to the grandparents. So, if the father so desired, he could seek custody ... which would obviate child support.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Do a lot of women rape men in China or Australia? It has happened here in the US but it's pretty rare and it's even rarer to result in pregnancy.
    I have no idea. But just like with men raping women, I don't think it would be reported a lot. Probably even more so.

    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Two points. First, courts no longer treat statutory rape, especially involving a 17 year old, the way they treat real rape (such as cases involving force or people who are mentally incapable of consent). If the ages were switched, do you think a 20 year old male who has consensual sex with a 17 year old female should have the same sentence as a guy who forced her to have sex?

    Second, child support goes to the person with custody. If, for some reason (such as the mother is legally unfit) the child is with grandparents, then the father pays child support to the grandparents. So, if the father so desired, he could seek custody ... which would obviate child support.
    Statutory rape is real rape. Rape is rape, there's no real and pretend. And yes, I think the charges should stand, and the sentences should be the same, whether or not the rape was done by a man or a woman. The whole point of an age of consent is that the law doesn't believe people under a certain age are able to consent to sex, so whether or not the sex was consensual is irrelevant if a person is under the age of consent. I believe should look at the level of violence (if any) involved when sentencing.

    In your second case, would the mother have to pay the father child support? Again, the focus is not of the child, but on the guardians. There are no laws stating that money needs to ensure the child's wellbeing. I don't think the a mother who rapes in order to get pregnant should be allowed to receive child support; the mother is profiting from a crime she committed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    In your second case, would the mother have to pay the father child support?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    There are no laws stating that money needs to ensure the child's wellbeing.
    So you're an expert on American family law?
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I There are no laws stating that money needs to ensure the child's wellbeing.
    You are absolutely right. Example: my nephew spent a year plus one quarter in boarding school. My brother paid the fees, provided the money for incidentals, provided the money for transportation to and from school, paid for all the school supplies and all of the kid's clothing. The kid spent the summer at his house.

    And he still had to pay child support to the mother, who was not spending a cent on the kid, not even providing a roof over his head. And the answer to this dilemma from two family law attorneys: only suing for custody could change it. If the legal paperwork says she's the custodial parent, she gets the support and her desire to have the kid in boarding school would not be grounds for her to lose custody (Imagine the headlines--mother sued for custody for providing stellar educational opportunity--oh the horror!); and it would likely be ruled if the issue of the school costs went to court that my brother had to pay for the school, anyway, since he has a much larger income.

    Kid got kicked out of boarding school for bad grades last week. Mother's response on FB: now she has to pay to have him at home and can't afford it. We're expecting her to ask for child support to be reevaluated now that she has to spend it on the kid again.

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    So you're an expert on American family law?
    No. Where did I say I was? I know several Americans receiving child support and several giving child support. I know the money goes to the person who has custody, and they are free to spend it however they please.

    Are you an expert in American family law? Are people receiving child support supposed to be monitored to see where the money they are being given is spent? Because no one I know has ever been asked. And if they're not, then the focus is not on the child IMO, but on the guardian.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    You are absolutely right. Example: my nephew spent a year plus one quarter in boarding school. My brother paid the fees, provided the money for incidentals, provided the money for transportation to and from school, paid for all the school supplies and all of the kid's clothing. The kid spent the summer at his house.

    And he still had to pay child support to the mother, who was not spending a cent on the kid, not even providing a roof over his head. And the answer to this dilemma from two family law attorneys: only suing for custody could change it. If the legal paperwork says she's the custodial parent, she gets the support and her desire to have the kid in boarding school would not be grounds for her to lose custody (Imagine the headlines--mother sued for custody for providing stellar educational opportunity--oh the horror!); and it would likely be ruled if the issue of the school costs went to court that my brother had to pay for the school, anyway, since he has a much larger income.

    Kid got kicked out of boarding school for bad grades last week. Mother's response on FB: now she has to pay to have him at home and can't afford it. We're expecting her to ask for child support to be reevaluated now that she has to spend it on the kid again.
    Sorry to hear this, I know you have some complicated family things going on. I think the parent without custody should be allowed to pay for goods and services for the child in lieu (or at least up to a percentage of) of child support - school fees, clothes etc. That way the money really is being spent on the child.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Sorry to hear this, I know you have some complicated family things going on. I think the parent without custody should be allowed to pay for goods and services for the child in lieu (or at least up to a percentage of) of child support - school fees, clothes etc. That way the money really is being spent on the child.
    I think that is a very good idea. I also think that child support and custody agreements should be automatically reevaluated on all ends every four or five years at least. In this state, the non-custodial parent's income is reevaluated to set the amount every three years. Nothing else. But the system is set up to benefit the custodial parent and to assume the non-custodial parent will not act in good faith. The latter may be the case sometimes, but not as often as the system (and a lot of people) tends to assume.

    My brother does intend to go back to court soon, however, as his child support decree requires him to pay until his son turns 19--he will (if he gets his act together academically) be halfway through his freshman year of college when he turns 19. And the plan is for him to live with my brother who will help pay for him to go to a nearby college. So he wants to get the child support changed to cut off when he graduates from high school.

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    I read the Star story in the loooong lineup at Safeway today.

    I don't know how accurate the Star story is on conveying the details that are in the lawsuit. But IMHO the baby-mama's description of how she and the Biebs got around to doing the nasty sounds like a description of how a naive 21-year-old thinks things happen backstage at a big concert. Not how things actually happen.

    I'm not saying that the Biebs couldn't have been the baby-daddy, but I would be really, really, really surprised if it happened the way baby-mama said it happened.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    The obligation isn't to the mother; it's to the child. IMO, the biological father owes the child some level of support, no matter what.
    even if the mother earns the great share of the income? Just because they father the child? I am not saying that he is completely free of responsibilities, but society has a warped view of who is the primary breadwinner. Obviously if Justin is the father, then he would be the primary income, but it is not true in all cases. For the most part the courts do not take that into consideration nor do they take into account the changes in income.

    If the father loses his job for whatever reason - hello economy - he still owes child support as it was originally decreed. So, the "dead-beat dad" who doesn't own up to his obligations to his children is not always true. Sometimes they are doing the best that they can given the circumstances of the time. Sure, the father could go back to court, risk everything pay another &1800.00 or more in lawyer fees and still end up with child support and back child support payments that can not be fulfilled because there is no money coming in.

    Mothers can hid their income levels too - not reporting a second job or a recent promotion. Mothers can choose to not work because she is wanting to live off child support of more than one child from more than one baby daddy. Parents on all sides of the equation should be looked at, not just the daddies that society has predetermined by gender that they do not want their children.

    If this mother did assault the former boyfriend (and I will admit I didn't read the whole police report), she seems to be the ideal mother, right?


    Attyfan - the father can seek custody, go to court with evidence that the mother has been arrested more than once, provides alcohol to minors and still have lost. The courts don't always recognize a better living situation just the womb.
    Last edited by numbers123; 11-06-2011 at 10:47 AM.

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