Which is harder: pre-IJS dance or IJS dance

[modern_muslimah]

Reading the Americanization/Elementization of Ice Dance thread made me wonder which style of dance ice dance fans and especially those familiar with ice dance technik consider to be more difficult. Would D/W or V/M be able to do the iconic dances of U/Z, G/P and vice versa? Is it even possible to compare them in terms of difficulty?

[briancoogaert]

The real question is about compulsories. Compulsories were of superior quality many years ago.

[gkelly]

Would D/W or V/M be able to do the iconic dances of U/Z, G/P and vice versa? Is it even possible to compare them in terms of difficulty?

Technically, I think today's top teams could execute the earlier dances just fine, but not vice versa. Whether they could express those styles at the same level is another question.

And I'd second briancoogaert's point about the compulsories.

[modern_muslimah]

The real question is about compulsories. Compulsories were of superior quality many years ago.

Technically, I think today's top teams could execute the earlier dances just fine, but not vice versa. Whether they could express those styles at the same level is another question.

And I'd second briancoogaert's point about the compulsories.

So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?

[Bournekraatzfan]

Ice dance has been my favourite discipline since I saw the Duchesnays and Klimova&Ponomarenko (on TV) at the 1992 Olympics. I think a team like K&P would fare well under the new system. I also think V&M had excellent compulsories.
I do think, however, that with the demands of the new system, a lot of teams did not have the time to train their compulsories that they would have had during the old system. The OD and now SD and the FD segments under IJS are packed with difficult elements.

[Bournekraatzfan]

So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?

I always look at the depth of edge, and whether or not they execute each section with the correct edge, as well as ice coverage, speed and flow. I also pay attention to how close they skate to one another and how secure and comfortable their hold is (I mean to say that it should not look like one partner is using the other partner for balance).

[briancoogaert]

So I assume you both think that pre-IJS teams were better at compulsories? Why do you think so? Basically, what should non-techniks like myself look for in compulsories? Also, do you think that SD format of the past two seasons makes it more difficult for teams to really do great CDs?

Compulsories were about trace, unisson, rhythm and control of the edge and of the upper body. That's what is amazing with them.
New dance teams don't practice anymore for them, that's why they are not as good as before. You can see it in the SD : no good rhythm, not together. They gain speed with power, not by using the blade.
Watch any CD by Torvill&Dean, and you'll see what I mean : you don't see them pushing, nor forcing, they are amazingly beautiful, together...Torvill and Dean Paso Doble

[mineko]

...Watch any CD by Torvill&Dean, and you'll see what I mean : you don't see them pushing, nor forcing, they are amazingly beautiful, together...Torvill and Dean Paso Doble

Wow...

[DinDonShamu]

Wow...

Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTI...eature=related

[modern_muslimah]

Wow...

IA. T&D were so smooth and they made the dance look so effortless. D&S, V&M and D&W on the other hand, make the same dance look like more work. I noticed the pushing that Brian referred.

[casken]

What is harder today is obviously the lifts and twizzles, in the sense that they could go wrong at any time and the woman could go hurtling towards the ice on a lift, or someone gets sliced by a blade trying to catch a foot, or fall flat on their face on a twizzle, etc.

In fact I think that's part of the appeal now. There's a sense that you could witness a Dubreuil moment at any time. The falls in the 2006 Olympic OD drew more interest from the media and public than B&A actually winning a medal.

Pre-IJS, there was far more danger of tripping each other up or colliding with each other becuase FD's then were essentially 4 full minutes of nonstop steps, changing holds, connecting movements, etc that were done very close together. Lifts were more woven into the choreography rather than set up with crossovers. Closeness between the partners and skating in a variety of holds and positions was far more important then than they are now.

It's just a different beast entirely now. There's danger in the TES elements, but almost no danger outside of them them. Patrick Chan has more of a chance of tripping himself up on his connecting movement than D&W or V&W do, and he doesn't draw as many 10.00s.

Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTI...eature=related

I see what you're saying, but I love the power and bigness of DelSchoe's Paso CD.

[Aussie Willy]

I think IJS requires a lot more from both partners. Guys just can't away with presenting their partners any more and do easier stuff. It asks for both partners to demonstrate quality skating skills.

[mineko]

Compare this to D/S's 2009 CD. The difference is astounding oldies rulz in compulsories ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWlTI...eature=related

ITA. And to think D/S were considered the best at CD among their contemporaries.

[briancoogaert]

I think IJS requires a lot more from both partners. Guys just can't away with presenting their partners any more and do easier stuff. It asks for both partners to demonstrate quality skating skills.

LOL ! That's why I'm happy to be a male Compulsories are easier for us !

[nuge]

[QUOTE=casken;3351423]What is harder today is obviously the lifts and twizzles, in the sense that they could go wrong at any time and the woman could go hurtling towards the ice on a lift, or someone gets sliced by a blade trying to catch a foot, or fall flat on their face on a twizzle, etc.

That's why I love to watch D/W and Denstav they're exciting ' they always seem to be skating on the edge no pun intended where they especially Charlie /Maxim could go down any moment I suppose Fabian can now be included too

On the other hand you have V/M technically perfect seemless beautiful skating and hardly any chance of mistakes Tessa on the floor

[Aussie Willy]

LOL ! That's why I'm happy to be a male Compulsories are easier for us !

Hey that is because they were invented by men!

[briancoogaert]

Hey that is because they were invented by men!

And to attract (or lure) men into ice dancing ! lol
That's also something good to be a man : a lot of ladies are alone and want to dance with you

[DinDonShamu]

And to attract (or lure) men into ice dancing ! lol
That's also something good to be a man : a lot of ladies are alone and want to dance with you

I hate to confess ... I'm honing up my skating skills precisely for this

[Aussie Willy]

And to attract (or lure) men into ice dancing ! lol
That's also something good to be a man : a lot of ladies are alone and want to dance with you

Well that is why my coach took up ice dancing. It was quite evident one day when he was about to show a group of women the Dutch Waltz. He had 5 women standing around him in a circle and all I could say was "This is the reason why [insert coaches name] took up ice dancing". It made a beautiful picture.

[briancoogaert]

An example : this dance by Rahkamo & Kokko is not particularly difficult, but I'm sure few skaters in the World would do that the way they did it.