"Just Between US Ladies": 2011-12 season news, views, score updates & more

[olympic]

You really think Flatt would have finished in the top 8 without her injury. I highly doubt it.

Yep, I do. Her 4CC's performances in February would've done it.

ETA - I also think the US ladies have taken a step up this season - Alissa is putting her nerves further behind her; Ashley has really started to fix a major shortcoming to her jumps; Mirai has appeared as of CoC to make an effort to skate clean; Even Zhang is making a comeback of sorts. Their marks are all slightly better at this point in the season over last year. Except Rachael, but she's got a good head on her shoulders and works hard, so I'm not ruling her out.

We will see Agnes next week.

[Jammers]

Mirai couldn't beat the two when it really counted, at nationals I'm just saying, for all this talk about how much the US needs 3 spots because we have so many talented skaters, the two that lay it down when they need to the most (at nationals) still can't seem to earn the spots back. If the US were really so deep and talented, the girls would have 3 spots. Part of being a good skater is the ability to compete, having theoretical talent a la Mirai doesn't matter when you can't do it under pressure. I'm just saying, maybe the American girls aren't "blowing it" at worlds... maybe that's just as good as it's going to get. GPs aren't the same as worlds. Whether it's technical issues, inability to compete, or issues with non-jump elements, it seems like the Americans are stuck in the 5-12 range. Maybe that's just all they're capable of, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Not everyone can be a Kwan.

Then how does Russia have three spots for Worlds next year? The younger girls being excluded Russia isn't exactly deep with Senior ladies eligible for Worlds. Just look at Makarova and Leonova. Neither of them are exactly world beaters yet they somehow managed to get 3 spots for next years Worlds. Yet neither of them will probably be in the top 8 at Worlds next year. The way Makarova is skating she won't even make the team. So what is the excuse for the US not to get 3 spots? Our top skaters are sure better then either Makarova or Leonova. If they can get it done at Worlds then the US has no excuse.

[smarts1]

Then how does Russia have three spots for Worlds next year? The younger girls being excluded Russia isn't exactly deep with Senior ladies eligible for Worlds. Just look at Makarova and Leonova. Neither of them are exactly world beaters yet they somehow managed to get 3 spots for next years Worlds. Yet neither of them will probably be in the top 8 at Worlds next year. The way Makarova is skating she won't even make the team. So what is the excuse for the US not to get 3 spots? Our top skaters are sure better then either Makarova or Leonova. If they can get it done at Worlds then the US has no excuse.

Because Worlds was held to Russia last season. Lol. Just Kidding... Not really...

[Jammers]

[berthesghost]

Am I the only one who isn't crying about the lack of 3 spots? The US hasn't gotten them in past years because they haven't deserved them. Period. The US ladies aren't good enough for 3 spots right now, they would have gotten them back already if they were. If the top 2 finishers from Nationals can't scrounge up the placements for 3, there's no point in sending someone else who can't even beat those two, IMHO.

no. people really do moan on about it in a ott way IMHO.
I guess part of the reason why it's so dwelled upon these days, is because we have like 5 so-so skaters right now, so it's hard to decide which combination might get the job done.

[RD]

ETA - I also think the US ladies have taken a step up this season - Alissa is putting her nerves further behind her; Ashley has really started to fix a major shortcoming to her jumps; Mirai has appeared as of CoC to make an effort to skate clean; Even Zhang is making a comeback of sorts. Their marks are all slightly better at this point in the season over last year. Except Rachael, but she's got a good head on her shoulders and works hard, so I'm not ruling her out.

We will see Agnes next week.

Too soon to say if Czisny is "putting her nerves further behind her" yet...I mean, her Skate America FS wasn't all that convincing to be honest.

So far, the American I've seen make the most improvement is Wagner- but even then, she has a ways to go before she is competitive with the world's best (if she ever gets there).

[haribobo]

Just look at Makarova and Leonova. Neither of them are exactly world beaters yet they somehow managed to get 3 spots for next years Worlds.

They also weren't injured, coached by Tom Z. who loves letting his skaters compete injured, and in denial about their injury. Rachael's situation at Worlds was like the perfect storm. The 2 years before that were different, but our situation at Worlds 2011 was like impossible. I feel bad for Alissa in a way, because she finally got things together and skated well at Worlds and held up her end of the deal, and meanwhile the CO springs team was basically creating a sabotage situation. It's a shame that Rachael had quite a good career and reputation and basically ruined it all.

I think Leonova and Makarova were both in a very good phase of their careers and the timing worked out great at Worlds. Unfortunately things so far aren't going great for them this season. I think Morozov is sucking a lot of the joy out of Leonova.

USFS has Czisny, Nagasu, Wagner, Gold, Zawadzki, Gao, Zhang, Cesario, Lam and maybe Siraj and Keiser as skaters capable of a worlds top 10 finish. One shouldn't discount their abilities just because of what happened with Flatt at Worlds.

[krenseby]

Too soon to say if Czisny is "putting her nerves further behind her" yet...I mean, her Skate America FS wasn't all that convincing to be honest.

So do you have any expectations of Czisny or not? Or are you still just watching her without really expecting anything in particular from her?

[museksk8r]

USFS has Czisny, Nagasu, Wagner, Gold, Zawadzki, Gao, Zhang, Cesario, Lam and maybe Siraj and Keiser as skaters capable of a worlds top 10 finish.

WHAAAAAAA???

[burntBREAD]

WHAAAAAAA???

I think Gold would be, if she skates her best her jumps will pull her up.

The rest, I agree...definitely not top 10 unless others bomb.

[haribobo]

Yes really, when you get right down to it and look at who will be there. Lets say 3 JPN skaters, 3 RUS skaters, a US and Kostner skater would be top 8. Add in Korpi you get 9. Competing for 10th would be Kexin Zhang (just did well at CoC to score 153), Elene G. (146), Phaneuf (140 at SC), Helgesson (145 at SA), Meite (best score so far this season 136) and Vannut (not showed up yet this season). I think Cesario (153), C. Zhang (152), and Lam (156) could compete with them, for sure. I'm not talking about Cesario and Zhang version 2010 who were all over the place. I'm talking this season, they have improved, a lot. Zhang skated much better at her Graz int'l event vs. Skate America, where I know she lost to Helgesson. Lam is rather bland but very solid. Cesario is magnificent when on, which has been often this season. I reckon they could even take down Korpi and a Russian or two on a good day. Siraj and Keiser I'm less confident about until I see them more. Gold already has vastly outscored all the other 10th place contendors at her JGP event (and several of the higher ranked ones even) so yes, she would be a Worlds top 10 skater if she were competing senior this year and kept her skills at that level.

[RD]

So do you have any expectations of Czisny or not? Or are you still just watching her without really expecting anything in particular from her?

My question was this: Would she continue her strong season from last year, or was this simply another peak on her career roller-coaster?

And to answer yours- she has said in her own words that she is a "new skater", and as such I hold her to those words- i.e. I expect her to hold herself together and not bomb when she makes a mistake like she used to. In other words, I expect that she has vanquished "bad Alyssa" when she essentially tells me she is not the skater she used to be.

[smarts1]

^ Gold definitely could get a top 10 finish at Worlds, and heck even top 8 or even 6 depending on the day.

[smarts1]

My question was this: Would she continue her strong season from last year, or was this simply another peak on her career roller-coaster?

And to answer yours- she has said in her own words that she is a "new skater", and as such I hold her to those words- i.e. I expect her to hold herself together and not bomb when she makes a mistake like she used to. In other words, I expect that she has vanquished "bad Alyssa" when she essentially tells me she is not the skater she used to be.

I hope she's just not peaking at the wrong time. Although the seasons are flying by, we still have a couple of seasons to go until the Olympics. One large part of going to the Olympics and getting a medal there is all about timing. Just think about it. Had the winter Olympics not been held in 94 (and held in 96 instead), we would have had a whole slew of different Olympic champions. Take for example Oksana. She exploded onto the scene in 93 and won gold in Lillehammer in 94 and quickly retired afterwards partly due to funding. Does anyone really think she would have stayed to 96 (with stiffer competition) and won gold had an Olympics been held in 96? Does anyone really think Tara would have won gold in 2000? And would Yuna have won gold back in 2008? Could Yukari have gone to the Olympics had the Olympics been held in 2008? Would Joannie have challenged for a medal in 2008?

[RD]

^ I don't even know if Czisny plans on continuing to Sochi...

[haribobo]

Has Alissa stated publicly that she's even interested in going for the 2014 team? Not everyone gears their life and career around the Olympics. I'm sure she'd love to make the team but she surely knows its not a guarantee and I think she can be pretty satisfied with what she's already accomplished. However, she's still doing well so I think she could end up there. I think her skill set allows her to always be a contendor as long as she can put down 3 or 4 triples in a FS.

But it is interesting to think about what would've happened if the OLY were on those other years....

ETA: oops, didn't mean to copy RD. I think I started doing dishes and got sidetracked :p

[Mayra]

Have to say I really enjoyed Christina Gao's LP at COC. Her SP is IMO lyrical snot and does nothing to highlight her strengths, but her LP is a big step up for her. She reminds of Kostner in that if she isn't careful she can really appear awkward and gangly because of her long limbs. Kostner IMO does a good job of making her long limbs work for her and Gao can as well. I wish Orser and Wilson would go for something different with Christina. She has potential, but I feel as if she isn't growing enough artistically. Give the girl something to work with!

On a completely shallow note, what a difference a hairstyle makes. I'm so used to seeing her bangs flopping around that it was a refreshing change to see her face. She almost looked like a different skater out there. Here's hoping she keeps the bangs at bay in future competitions as well. JMO

[smarts1]

^ Eh I'm the opposite. I thought her LP was a snooze fest and I must preferred her SP. The problem with her skating is that she just doesn't know how to captivate you and her artistry is very dry.

She needs major work on her spins, her skating skills and the flow coming out of her jumps. It's really holding her back.

[burntBREAD]

For those wondering where Mirai's flip is, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbo3...tailpage#t=76s
The edge looks like it barely turns inwards at the last second but I could definitely see some judges giving an edge call there.

[topaz]

I would be happy for any of the following to make it to the worlds: Czisny, Wagner, Nagasu or Agnes Z.

I think Flatt's time is over; She is having jump issues now(nerves), her spins are slow and her weaknesses are glaringly loud compared to the other ladies skaters. Her skating looks so lumbering and she doesn't have perky attitude on the ice.

My two favorite US ladies are Ashley and Mirai. Ashley is at a better place with her programs compared to Mirai. I do not like either of Mirai's programs. They don't highlight her playful personality and she looks like she's having a horrible time. I almost want to her to try another coach.