IJS Senior ladies with triple / triple combinations

[gkelly]

That will probably come eventually. First the technology would have to be available (probably true now but not 20-30 years ago) and easy to use in real time and inexpensive enough to be used at all competitions above a certain level, not just for ISU championships/Grand Prix (this could take a while).

[giselle23]

I think the question should be, which current ladies have a consistent 3-3. Very few.
What made Yu Na so amazing, IMO, is that she could pull off that 3-3 every time, and do it so beautifully. There are only a handful of past skaters who could do it consistently--Tara Lipinski (though maybe she would have lost it, if she had continued), Midori Ito. Who else?

[briancoogaert]

I think the question should be, which current ladies have a consistent 3-3. Very few.
What made Yu Na so amazing, IMO, is that she could pull off that 3-3 every time, and do it so beautifully. There are only a handful of past skaters who could do it consistently--Tara Lipinski (though maybe she would have lost it, if she had continued), Midori Ito. Who else?

Carolina Kostner had it at almost every competition (SP or LP or both) since 2003.
Surya Bonaly too, if we include 3Toe/half-Loop/3Sal.

[Polymer Bob]

I am pretty sure Caroline Zhang landed a 3 - 3 at last season's NHK Trophy.

[Sylvia]

I am pretty sure Caroline Zhang landed a 3 - 3 at last season's NHK Trophy.

No, she didn't. When was the last time she landed a clean 3-3 in competition? Was it 3F+3T in her FS at 2009 World Team Trophy?

ETA: I just checked online, and Zhang was credited with landing 3F+3T< in her 2009 Skate Canada SP.

I did see her land some very nice 3Lo+3Lo combos in practices at Skate America last month, so maybe we'll see her try it in competition at some point?

[briancoogaert]

I am pretty sure Caroline Zhang landed a 3 - 3 at last season's NHK Trophy.

According to the protocols, she didn't : http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp...0_protocol.pdf

[mag]

...You know something I have always wondered, why didn't they do computerization of the height, distance, speed and trajectory of each jump and elements? They have the technology already I am sure. Fine, it doesn't have to be used on the actual judgement, but just to inform TV audiences. It would make fascinating insight from a scientific point of view. We have this in other sport, why not figure skating?

To rely purely on sight vision really doesn't really do the sport or the skaters justice. Like for example, everyone has been going on about Liza's 3:3 is suppose to be big for her age, but just how big i want to know compare to others at Junior level. And how big in relating to her height, weight, how she last performed etc.

We talk about improving the sports and bring it credibility, this would be a good step forward. Anyone who's obsessed with sport stats would become interested, and frankly it would make fascinating insight into whether judges got it right from competition to competition (maybe that is why they didn't want to use it?).

I think the technology is available and fairly easy to implement. If you watch football or tennis they use computers all the time to show plays. In tennis they often show you a computer drawing of where all the serves in a game or set landed. In the time it takes for the marks to come up in skating, all the jumps and spins could be shown on the big screen. Each could be labelled with the rotation drawn in outline on the computer. A measurement could then be given to show if there was any pre or under rotation. The problem isn't the technology, the problem is that then everyone would see the calls and they would have to be fair and consistent for all skaters .... that might be difficult for TPTB to take.

[briancoogaert]

You know something I have always wondered, why didn't they do computerization of the height, distance, speed and trajectory of each jump and elements? They have the technology already I am sure. Fine, it doesn't have to be used on the actual judgement, but just to inform TV audiences. It would make fascinating insight from a scientific point of view. We have this in other sport, why not figure skating?

You need to watch Ice Princess.

[Rochelle]

I think the technology is available and fairly easy to implement. If you watch football or tennis they use computers all the time to show plays. In tennis they often show you a computer drawing of where all the serves in a game or set landed. In the time it takes for the marks to come up in skating, all the jumps and spins could be shown on the big screen. Each could be labelled with the rotation drawn in outline on the computer. A measurement could then be given to show if there was any pre or under rotation. The problem isn't the technology, the problem is that then everyone would see the calls and they would have to be fair and consistent for all skaters .... that might be difficult for TPTB to take.

I love it. I really do like this idea. It'd be interesting to see done in practice and implemented for a skating event just even as a test. For those not in person, it can be very difficult to notice on TV the difference in the height of jumps (or the speed/distance covered as well on jumps).

I can see it aiding the more casual-TV-watching-fan's understanding of how when Serious Stylish Sam and Frantic Flailing Fred landed the exact same 6 triples in their programs... Frantic Flailing Fred consistently still scored more +2s and even a few +3s because his jumps are on average X-feet higher, cover X-more feet in distance across the ice, and executed at XX-MPH/KPM faster.

But... ... it'd also be interesting to see such an implementation for the sake of PCS -- particularly transitions. I'm already dreaming up a photoshop sketch in my head to exemplify how the program is laid out on the ice... where Frantic Flailing Fred simply skates back/forth non-stop from one end to the other to display jump spectacular jumps with little actual skating (and just arm flailing and posing)... while other skaters like Serious Stylish Sam have notably intricate and varied transitions and excellent use of the full ice surface.

In my head, the TV and computer screen is even starting to appear like a (gulp) NASCAR race or something...
**Up at the top is the scrolling bar of GOEs flashed up for each elements seconds after it passes. Then the current results are scrolled along while the skater is in the Kiss & Cry
The right column of the screen includes:
*one alternative camera view showing the live reactions of the coach (since a camera seems to be on the coaches at all times, anyway, to get those reaction shots replayed in the K&C)
*a live-time-updated list of all elements actually executed (as called by the tech in real time)
*the above proposed graphics that flashes the technical stats of an element (height / distance / speed / rotation for jump), etc. upon execution.

If it can support the results and real-time-activity of the IJS software, it really may not be all that costly to develop. Hmm. Hmmmmm... The significant cost is probably for the "program that graphic that determines and displays the technical stats of an element (height / distance / speed / rotation for jump".

I do wonder A) what kind of fan base increase we have to develop to get it... when it seems track/field and other lower-fan-base sports have it... B) if that would help gain fans if used at a crucial time like the 2014 Olympics.

Ok. Tangent done.

Back to the 3-3s topic...

[Mafke]

I think the ISU's jihad against underrotation effectively removed much of the motivation for trying 3-3's. The plain fact is that hardly any ladies have 3-3's that will consistently meet the standards of ISJ.

Ruthlessly punish very slight underrotation that's only visible in slo-mo = fewer skaters trying risky combinations.

The system gets what it selects for (fewer 'female' triples) and not what it hopes to select for (more 'fully' rotated jumps).

[gkelly]

A bit of a bright spot is the change in scoring last year for jumps that are 91-180 degrees short of rotation. At least those underrotated triples are now worth more than bad doubles, as well they should be.