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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    There's lots of insight going on in the Skate Canada forum in Kiss and Cry. I would prefer not to see the usual negativity rehashed here in GSD yet again, but I guess it's inevitable, sigh...
    Trust me, my goal isn't negativity (you're looking at an uber here). I just don't have a subscription and I was curious to see if anyone had some insight as to what could be that bad. Now that the protocol came out, I'm really curious to see the program.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Trust me, my goal isn't negativity (you're looking at an uber here).
    Oh I know you're an uber , but you're opening the door to the anti-ubers. I just would rather have the negativity contained in as few different threads as possible, but I know that's not realistic. I did like seeing the positive interaction among Rachael and her coaches, Lynn Smith and Justin Dillon, in the Kiss and Cry after the FS.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    I disagree for a variety of reasons.

    (Whole post)
    Well ain't it great to be you.........

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackOnTheIce View Post
    It is really two rinks, three coaches. One lead and two who assist and she is doing just fine with it all. Stop picking.
    Well, see... that's what I said: that one coach will be the main one.

    This is a very common arrangement in figure skating. We, the fans, don't always see it because a lot of time only the main coach is mentioned, but many elite skaters are working with assistants and specialists as needed throughout the season. It's really not as crazy as it seems in these articles.

    However, the articles have mentioned Charlie Tickner and he teaches at the Redwood City rink so that is at least 3 rinks. At least the RC one is quite close to Stanford. Lots of Stanford skaters practice there.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly On The Wall View Post
    Well ain't it great to be you.........
    Gee, thanks. I still stand by points one and two, because Rachael really does want to pursue something that's going to require connections and stellar grades at a top school like Stanford. And because she did work so hard in high school. And because I can't imagine the stress she's under right now. She looked like she was going to cry at the end of her LP.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly On The Wall View Post
    Well ain't it great to be you.........
    victoriaheidi clearly just wanted an excuse to post about how amazing and successful she is.

    As for what seems to be Rachael's major issue, everyone can see that but it's a big taboo that won't be spoken about.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    victoriaheidi clearly just wanted an excuse to post about how amazing and successful she is. :p
    Bingo!

    ETA: everyone gets that I don't mean that seriously, right? I just think Rachael deserves more credit than she gets for even giving this a shot...
    Last edited by victoriaheidi; 10-31-2011 at 05:25 AM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    victoriaheidi clearly just wanted an excuse to post about how amazing and successful she is.

    As for what seems to be Rachael's major issue, everyone can see that but it's a big taboo that won't be spoken about.
    LOL

    Honestly, poor kid is just not in competition shape. On one of her landings, it looked like her landing leg (the one that was injured) just crumpled. I thought she'd hurt herself!

    Was she monitored at all this summer?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Was she monitored at all this summer?
    She attended Champs Camp with all the other GP skaters.

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    I hope Rachael's not too hard on herself. I'm sure most successful people know what it's like to take on too much and implode a little bit. She's at a good age to learn her limits, but it's a shame that so many people are watching. Sometimes, simply working/trying harder is not the answer.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    LOL

    Honestly, poor kid is just not in competition shape. On one of her landings, it looked like her landing leg (the one that was injured) just crumpled. I thought she'd hurt herself!

    Was she monitored at all this summer?
    I have a feeling she is overloaded. Organization and even thriving on activity doesn't mean that not getting enough sleep or enough training time won't catch up with you.

    victoriaheidi's argument loses logic because one of the things on Rachael's plate is being an elite level athlete. I was the busy sort as an undergrad. Full 16-18 hour loads every semester, three majors, enough extracurriculars that I had multiple meetings and rehearsals every week day and some Saturdays (newspaper staff, marching and concert band, theatre crews, plus committees and honor societies), a social life, church activities, and two campus jobs. And I got strong grades. But comparing those schedule demands to the demands of training as an Olympic level athlete is not realistic and I wouldn't pretend it is comparable. And, yes, college athletes compete at a high level and have academic demands. But at Division I universities, they also have an entire support system that Rachael does not have access to and their training facilities are on campus.

  12. #32

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    I think that Rachael needs to make some hard choices. I don't think she can do Stanford and full time competitive skating, both well. If she's not ready to give up competitive skating than she should go to college later (there's nothing wrong with that). If she's not ready to give up college she should give up competitive skating for now. Or at the last (only do Nationals, maybe worlds). The thing is she can easily take a year or two off skating and make a wrong for Sochi awhile from now...If she wants.

    But at Division I universities, they also have an entire support system that Rachael does not have access to and their training facilities are on campus.
    Not to mention a lot of universities scholarship athletes don't take the hardest of classes...

    1. I think, as much as Rachael wants to skate right now, her future is uber-important to her and she wants the connections that she'll make at Stanford. Sure, a transfer can make those connections too, but that brings me to my next point.
    2. I took 5 APs in HS. Rachael took 7 (based on some articles I read. Brief aside: I got a lot more AP credit than she did. Bummer for her). She got straight A's. She worked hard. I know because I worked hard, too-I got nearly straight A's (math and science, you evil subjects!)-and, even with work, school, extracurriculars and all, she had to work a million times harder. And when you're in this for an education and you get into a school like Stanford or Harvard or one of those schools very few people get into, it would probably feel really crummy to say, "yay! I got into Stanford, but I'll be at Broadmoor Community College (or whatever the local CC is) for two years. Why did I work my butt so hard when I could've just gone there?" This applies only if the person can afford the top school, which I doubt was a major factor in her case (she probably got a few scholarships along the way, too).
    3. I think she likes this level of activity. I juggle a lot of activities ATM (school, work, sorority, family, extracurriculars, etc.) and I'm happy that I have so much going on in my life. Is it stressful? Yes. I've had essentially one midterm a week every week this semester. I'm taking 5 classes for 16 units and I realize now that this is more than I should be taking. So I'll cut back next semester. But do I like being busy and having things to do and being able to pursue more than just one thing at once? Yes! I can't imagine just being one thing. I think I'd get too burned out if I were just doing schoolwork, too absorbed if my whole life were about my sorority, and get sick of my family if they were the only people I ever saw. I think Rachael's the same way. I attribute her injury last season to the fact that she was only focusing on skating and NOTHING else.
    I don't think a bunch of extra curricular activities are the same as Olympic level training.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post

    Not to mention a lot of universities scholarship athletes don't take the hardest of classes...
    Some do. A cousin of mine played Division I football as a starter and graduated with a 4.0 and a double major in math and finance or something; not underwater basket weaving by any means. And then again, some don't.

    However, even at my small college that didn't even compete in NCAA, athletes whose seasons were essentially in one semester often tried to take their harder course work in the opposite term. I'm sure Division I athletes do that as much as possible as well. Not to mention having access to tutoring, study halls, and other support. They also have help juggling academics and sports on the road. When the D-I volleyball Final Four was in the area a few years ago, the local press reported that there was a place at the official hotel for players to study and take exams because most universities were at or near finals week. Those are advantages Rachael doesn't have.

  14. #34
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    Elite athletes train like it's a job. I had a job in college but most years it was on campus and I could make my own hours and I think I usually worked about 10 hours a week. Elite skating is more like working outside of campus for 20+ a week and you have less choice over your hours. I think it can be done but it's hard especially if your academic track is super-demanding.

    A lot of elite skaters go to college, but they don't take a full load. They may take nothing in the Fall or they take 50-75% of a full load and they make up for it with summer classes and then take more than 4 years to graduate. I think that works better than what Rachael is trying to do.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    Some do. A cousin of mine played Division I football as a starter and graduated with a 4.0 and a double major in math and finance or something; not underwater basket weaving by any means. And then again, some don't.

    However, even at my small college that didn't even compete in NCAA, athletes whose seasons were essentially in one semester often tried to take their harder course work in the opposite term. I'm sure Division I athletes do that as much as possible as well. Not to mention having access to tutoring, study halls, and other support. They also have help juggling academics and sports on the road. When the D-I volleyball Final Four was in the area a few years ago, the local press reported that there was a place at the official hotel for players to study and take exams because most universities were at or near finals week. Those are advantages Rachael doesn't have.
    True. I definetly shouldn't generalize. But the skating season though I think would make that difficult to do. because it spans both semesters..(Unless your on quarters or take summer school only) Plus I believe the NCAA has rules about how much training people are allowed to do. Which they all have to abide.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    victoriaheidi's argument loses logic because one of the things on Rachael's plate is being an elite level athlete. I was the busy sort as an undergrad. Full 16-18 hour loads every semester, three majors, enough extracurriculars that I had multiple meetings and rehearsals every week day and some Saturdays (newspaper staff, marching and concert band, theatre crews, plus committees and honor societies), a social life, church activities, and two campus jobs. And I got strong grades. But comparing those schedule demands to the demands of training as an Olympic level athlete is not realistic and I wouldn't pretend it is comparable. And, yes, college athletes compete at a high level and have academic demands. But at Division I universities, they also have an entire support system that Rachael does not have access to and their training facilities are on campus.
    Here's my thought: what does Rachael want? See, I see her being super-focused on college and getting those grades/connections together because she wants to be a [doctor/engineer/something I'll never, ever imagine trying to study for!], but she seems to not want to give up skating.

    It all makes me wonder what's going through that little girl's head...

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I have a feeling she is overloaded. Organization and even thriving on activity doesn't mean that not getting enough sleep or enough training time won't catch up with you.

    victoriaheidi's argument loses logic because one of the things on Rachael's plate is being an elite level athlete. I was the busy sort as an undergrad. Full 16-18 hour loads every semester, three majors, enough extracurriculars that I had multiple meetings and rehearsals every week day and some Saturdays (newspaper staff, marching and concert band, theatre crews, plus committees and honor societies), a social life, church activities, and two campus jobs. And I got strong grades. But comparing those schedule demands to the demands of training as an Olympic level athlete is not realistic and I wouldn't pretend it is comparable. And, yes, college athletes compete at a high level and have academic demands. But at Division I universities, they also have an entire support system that Rachael does not have access to and their training facilities are on campus.
    IMHO you post makes a VERY valid point.... all your activites were "on campus" And the elite athletes at a lot of schools get advantages like "early schedule pull' so that thier classes are the one's that do NOT occur during practice etc...

    Rachel's 'training' is not CLOSE to her campus especially when you factor in the traffic. Not to mention "road trips" to Boston for "charity shows"etc...(I admit the "wisdom" of "let's fly to Boston for a Chairty show" in this scheduled seems strange to me. I know it's for a "good cause" but trying to pretend "I can do everything I have always done" seems strange)

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Here's my thought: what does Rachael want? See, I see her being super-focused on college and getting those grades/connections together because she wants to be a [doctor/engineer/something I'll never, ever imagine trying to study for!], but she seems to not want to give up skating.

    It all makes me wonder what's going through that little girl's head...
    There's no reason why Rachael can't have a Stanford education after she gives up skating. Or frankly she's young enough (Look at Kostner) where maybe she could go back after college. What I don't know if she can do is both Stanford full time and full time competitive skating Well at the same time. Both require dedication hard work.

  19. #39

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    Here's a quote by Flatt after her Skate Canada FS:
    "That performance can be attributed to not being quite trained yet and not having that confidence in my training and my long so far," said the 19-year-old. "I need to trust my training a bit more and rely on my experience more. I am a seasoned competitor. That, unfortunately, didn't show in my skating here. I'll learn from it and move on. We all have tough performances, and that was pretty tough. I'll be better."

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    True. I definetly shouldn't generalize. But the skating season though I think would make that difficult to do. because it spans both semesters..(Unless your on quarters or take summer school only) Plus I believe the NCAA has rules about how much training people are allowed to do. Which they all have to abide.
    Stanford is on quarters, isn't it? Of course, in biochem engineering, her load this term probably is considered light.

    As macmadame points out, a lot of skaters before have done part time school. Alissa Ciszny combined on-campus coursework with online classes which would have given her a lot more flexibility. We also didn't read stories about her on campus social life and adventures attending football games, etc... Rachael is trying to have it all and all at the same time. I understand wanting a full college experience, but she very well may have to choose between that and skating if she wants to compete on a high level.

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