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  1. #1
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    Animals Nearing Extinction

    Saw this article in one of the free daily newspapers here:

    Last native Javan rhino found dead

    Vietnam's Javan rhinos poached into oblivion

    (Reuters) - An endangered Javan rhinoceros found dead in Vietnam last year was the country's last, rendering the species all but the extinct, WWF reported on Tuesday.

    Only a small population now remains in Indonesia.

    Genetic analysis of 22 dung samples collected in Vietnam's Cat Tien National Park from 2009 to 2010 affirmed that the animal, found dead with a bullet in its leg and its horn removed in April 2010, was the final wild rhino in Vietnam.

    Poaching was the likely cause of death, WWF said in a report.
    The article later states:

    Rhinoceros horns are a coveted ingredient in traditional Eastern medicine and rumoured to cure or fend off cancer, although scientists say there is no evidence to support the claim.
    I know there are articles about species being eliminated by humans on a too-common basis, but this article really affected me. First, an endangered species is hunted to (almost) extinction. And the reason? For something that has no scientific validity. It's like acting on an old wive's tales...just because...

    Ignorance is not bliss.
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  2. #2
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    That's terrible. I sure hope they'll be able to protect that small population in Indonesia at least.

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    Dreadful. I can't put into words how this makes me feel. A little unrelated but this article from a couple of weeks ago disturbed me more than anything recently. A warning, it's very sad. I refuse to go to Japan because of their stance on whaling, China is also on my lists of countries I refuse to visit because of stories like this. Poor racoon dogs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


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    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    I can't put into words how this makes me feel. A little unrelated but this article from a couple of weeks ago disturbed me more than anything recently. A warning, it's very sad.
    Just heartbreaking. How can people do that? A crazed psychopath, okay, but average people working in the fur industry? It's not hard to have compassion for the suffering of animals. There are quick and painless ways to kill them and the same profit is still earned.

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    Unfortunately it is not going to get any better for the animals because as some countries get richer, their populations are buying and demanding more. China for example with it's huge population have a growing demand for all sorts of resources and animals which are now endangered. Unintended consequence of countries expanding rich and middle classes.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Unfortunately it is not going to get any better for the animals because as some countries get richer, their populations are buying and demanding more. China for example with it's huge population have a growing demand for all sorts of resources and animals which are now endangered. Unintended consequence of countries expanding rich and middle classes.
    It's not that China's population is huge, it is that there are no independant voices legally allowed. Has anyone ever heard of a privately owned/run animal sanctuary in China? One of the great things about democracies is that people can pool their ideas and resources, independant of opposing views, and work towards their one-of-many-ideas solution.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Dreadful. I can't put into words how this makes me feel. A little unrelated but this article from a couple of weeks ago disturbed me more than anything recently. A warning, it's very sad. I refuse to go to Japan because of their stance on whaling, China is also on my lists of countries I refuse to visit because of stories like this. Poor racoon dogs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490
    : : :

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    It's not that China's population is huge, it is that there are no independant voices legally allowed. Has anyone ever heard of a privately owned/run animal sanctuary in China? One of the great things about democracies is that people can pool their ideas and resources, independant of opposing views, and work towards their one-of-many-ideas solution.
    There are plenty of privately run and owned animal homes across China. But why does an animal sanctuary have to be privately run to serve a purpose?

    And independent voices are legally heard all of the time. When was the last time you read a Chinese newspaper? I read several this morning, and they all contained at least one article where someone was griping against something they didn't like or think was fair. Protests occur in China all the time. There was even one to support occupy Wall Street. One happened in my neighbourhood last week because a local "village" is being knocked down.

    These stories are dreadful, but the people to blame are the poachers. I think it's unfair to blame governments that have protection laws for these acts. It's incredibly difficult to find poachers, so all too often they get away with it.

    Not visiting entire countries because of the actions of a very tiny percentage of the population is a loss for you, Ozzisk8tr. You're missing out on some amazing experiences by not visiting Japan or China. It's also easier to change these issues from within, and so if you never visit, you can't affect that change.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Dreadful. I can't put into words how this makes me feel. A little unrelated but this article from a couple of weeks ago disturbed me more than anything recently. A warning, it's very sad. I refuse to go to Japan because of their stance on whaling, China is also on my lists of countries I refuse to visit because of stories like this. Poor racoon dogs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490
    That makes me want to vomit.

  11. #11
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    I'm not going to argue the wrongs or rights of farming animals for their fur- but- no one actually working at that day in and day out is going to be skinning live animals. They would be very difficult to skin, and their beating heart would cause blood to spurt and possibly ruin the fur. It is quick and simple to kill an animal. And then you skin it. That is how it is done anywhere in the world. Those videos are paid, staged, events. I find the fact that animal "rights" groups do this extremely offensive.

    And these disgusting videos serve no good. The original point of this thread is the tragic loss of a magnificent species. I have to wonder if the Rhino were as cute as a seal pup, or a racoon dog, maybe they wouldn't be on the brink of extinction.

  12. #12
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    If only poachers and whalers had the tables turned on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I'm not going to argue the wrongs or rights of farming animals for their fur- but- no one actually working at that day in and day out is going to be skinning live animals. They would be very difficult to skin, and their beating heart would cause blood to spurt and possibly ruin the fur. It is quick and simple to kill an animal. And then you skin it. That is how it is done anywhere in the world. Those videos are paid, staged, events. I find the fact that animal "rights" groups do this extremely offensive.
    Honestly, it made me wonder. What's the purpose of skinning something alive when it's much easier and quicker to kill the animal? For companies taking such shortcuts, why would they do that if not for the camera?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I'm not going to argue the wrongs or rights of farming animals for their fur- but- no one actually working at that day in and day out is going to be skinning live animals. They would be very difficult to skin, and their beating heart would cause blood to spurt and possibly ruin the fur. It is quick and simple to kill an animal. And then you skin it. That is how it is done anywhere in the world. Those videos are paid, staged, events. I find the fact that animal "rights" groups do this extremely offensive..
    Can you provide some evidence that an animal rights group produced this video?

    I'm breath a lot easier if you would.

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    This is a fur industry website- but keep in mind- they find this video as horrifying as you do.

    Another thing to keep in mind, is that contrary to propaganda, animals need to be healthy and happy to have good quality fur. I can completely understand why people find wearing fur offensive, but you don't need to lose sleep over animals being tortured. It doesn't make any sense, if you look into it with an objective view.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I'm not going to argue the wrongs or rights of farming animals for their fur- but- no one actually working at that day in and day out is going to be skinning live animals. They would be very difficult to skin, and their beating heart would cause blood to spurt and possibly ruin the fur. It is quick and simple to kill an animal. And then you skin it. That is how it is done anywhere in the world. Those videos are paid, staged, events. I find the fact that animal "rights" groups do this extremely offensive.

    And these disgusting videos serve no good. The original point of this thread is the tragic loss of a magnificent species. I have to wonder if the Rhino were as cute as a seal pup, or a racoon dog, maybe they wouldn't be on the brink of extinction.
    That was my first thought too - there must be some really stupid fur company if their policy is to allow the skinning of their animals alive. It's hard enough getting my cat to stay still to cut his nails! I used to harvest brains and spinal cords from rats - a few times we'd cut the heads off too early when the heart was still beating and it's a HUGE mess. (Yeah, that was only for a summer and I vowed not to work with rats like that again. )

    But still the pictures are hard to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    This is a fur industry website- but keep in mind- they find this video as horrifying as you do.

    Another thing to keep in mind, is that contrary to propaganda, animals need to be healthy and happy to have good quality fur. I can completely understand why people find wearing fur offensive, but you don't need to lose sleep over animals being tortured. It doesn't make any sense, if you look into it with an objective view.
    Thanks. I'm not so sure that animals raised for fur need to be happy, but would think a certain level of health would be essential.

    It's a shame that animal rights group disseminate such materials when there are plenty of actual abuses of animals and already enough reasons to object to the fur industry.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    If only poachers and whalers had the tables turned on them.
    The whaling that occurs is legally permitted and monitored under the rules of the International Whaling Commission so I don't get how you can equate whalers to poachers.

    There are many different species of whales and not all of them are endangered. The anti-whaling brigade are using logic that says just because cod is endangered all fishing should be stopped.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    On a note related to PeterG's original post, I got my WWF (that's World Wildlife Fund, NOT World Wrestling Federation!) gift catalog today. You can donate toward the adoption of a Sumatran rhino (okay, it's not Javan but it's reeeeeeally close).
    http://www.worldwildlife.org/gift-ce...ran-Rhino.aspx

    There are many, many other animals to adopt, and if you donate at least $50 you get a plush animal--great to throw on the ice for your favorite skater OR for your kids/nieces/nephews/grandkids. Nice way to spread awareness for young'uns.

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