Samuelson/Gillis Cup of China

[Frau Muller]

I guess that they will not be renaming the trophy "The Samuelson/Gillis Cup of China" (title of this thread) anytime soon, eh? They seriously need to keep working at it & get into elite-competition shape.

[HSGP21]

I don't love the FD music, but I love them! Has any other couple ever competed internationally so soon after pairing together? with such new programs?? Major kudos for putting themselves out there.... I think they will be in fine shape by nationals, and be contenders by next season. You can tell they are thinking through every step- that will go away with time.

[hlp728]

Has any other couple ever competed internationally so soon after pairing together? with such new programs?? Major kudos for putting themselves out there.

I'd like to know the answer to those questions, but yes they deserve major kudos. The scoring was probably very disappointing for them (just look at their faces in the Kiss and Cry), but they are getting a lot of feedback and experience together, so next year, when they have a GP assignment they can break some records by being a team besting their GP scores by 15+ points.

I loved their FD and them as a team. Can't wait to see them develop as a team. Emily looked gorgeous in the gold dress.

[HeatherC]

They have a lot of potential! I liked their FD and think it will be fantastic with more mileage on it

[dancefan17]

Actually love the FD and love them--- just need more mileage, more speed more comfort with the programs..... anyone know what the illegal element was? (my apologies if I missed it in another thread)....like the chemistry alot and feels like they have made progress in a short period of time....

[madm]

Actually love the FD and love them--- just need more mileage, more speed more comfort with the programs..... anyone know what the illegal element was? (my apologies if I missed it in another thread)....like the chemistry alot and feels like they have made progress in a short period of time....

I was watching the TV broadcast a few minutes ago, and the announcer said she rested on his shoulder in the last lift and that's not allowed.

[reese]

I LOVE this team. They are such an adorable match. They actually look at each other during the performance, unlike both of them with their previous partners.

Yet this competition was a mess for them. I'm sure it's hard to turn down a GP offer, but it was really too soon for them and this doesn't give them a boost with the judges heading into their Sectionals with that deep field.

I may be in the minority, but I thought the FD choreography was AWFUL. Just so boring and that version of Stairway to Heaven is terrible, terrible, terrible. Chris Dean did it? He really mailed it in. And imagine all the money they paid for that!

Fingers crossed for them that they improve dramatically as the season continues. I can't stand the idea of Emily and Todd losing to Madison and Evan.

[hlp728]

Actually love the FD and love them--- just need more mileage, more speed more comfort with the programs..... anyone know what the illegal element was? (my apologies if I missed it in another thread)....like the chemistry alot and feels like they have made progress in a short period of time....

Goldenskate FD article said that possibly one of transitional moves was counted as an extra lift. Or maybe it is that last lift (it seemed a little off).

As far as their sectionals, the only names I recognize are Chock/Bates and Litchman/Copely, Samuelson/Gilles from those 8. Here's to wishing them the best at sectionals and beyond!!!

[Cherub721]

I don't love the FD music, but I love them! Has any other couple ever competed internationally so soon after pairing together? with such new programs?? Major kudos for putting themselves out there.... I think they will be in fine shape by nationals, and be contenders by next season. You can tell they are thinking through every step- that will go away with time.

I agree.... I remember commentators saying Belbin & Agosto skated together a whole year before they competed (and that was on the junior circuit) just to get used to each other. Samuelson & Gilles look to me like they're more in a tryout stage right now, and I don't think they should have competed or even confirmed the partnership (I guess she had no choice because they needed to register for Sectionals and she didn't want to miss two seasons in a row).

I couldn't help being angry at Evan Bates while I was watching CoC. Yes, Emily is a bit undertrained... she sat out for a whole year while she was perfectly healthy, because her partner was injured. Then her partner drops her (with a new partner already lined up?) and stays with their old coaches. So then Emily is the one that has to scramble to find a new partner, coaches, and choreographers, and comes out looking sloppy while Chock & Bates are far more prepared.

[Tak]

I was watching the TV broadcast a few minutes ago, and the announcer said she rested on his shoulder in the last lift and that's not allowed.

I thought they dropped that rule??? Now Im really confused. Don't many [almost every] other couple do lifts where she's resting on his shoulder? Just for instance - C/L lift where she leans her arms and rests on his shoulder as he raises her legs, D/W have a great lift where she's sitting on his shoulder, legs in a split position. I could give more examples too.

[reese]

I couldn't help being angry at Evan Bates while I was watching CoC. Yes, Emily is a bit undertrained... she sat out for a whole year while she was perfectly healthy, because her partner was injured. Then her partner drops her (with a new partner already lined up?) and stays with their old coaches. So then Emily is the one that has to scramble to find a new partner, coaches, and choreographers, and comes out looking sloppy while Chock & Bates are far more prepared.

I agree. It's still crazy to think about that whole year she sat out, right in her prime, waiting for Evan. And then when he finally gets back on the ice he dumps her with a new partner lined up.

Going forward, I still have very high hopes for Samuelson/Gilles. I just worry that they came together too late in the season for them to really make a mark at Nationals this year. Let's say Chock/Bates get that third spot at Nationals and Samuelson/Gilles finish down in 6th or lower... it'll be a struggle for Samuelson/Gilles to get the PCS they need in the 2012-2013 season.

[Debbie S]

I thought they dropped that rule??? Now Im really confused. Don't many [almost every] other couple do lifts where she's resting on his shoulder? Just for instance - C/L lift where she leans her arms and rests on his shoulder as he raises her legs, D/W have a great lift where she's sitting on his shoulder, legs in a split position. I could give more examples too.

Maybe the issue is what part of the body is resting on the shoulder, or whether it's a majority of the body weight, or something like that. I thought the illegal issue might be Todd's hands coming above his head for a few secs in that lift, b/c isn't it against the rules for the lifting partner's hands to be above the head, b/c then it becomes an overhead lift, which is not allowed in ice dance?

[BittyBug]

Here is the list of illegal elements from the ISU Handbook:

The following elements and movements are not permitted in the Short Dance & Free Dance unless otherwise stated in an ISU Communication:

Movements and/or poses in the Lifts:

- Lifting hand(s) of the lifting partner higher than his head*;
- Lying or sitting on the partner’s head;
- Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;
- Lifting partner swinging the lifted partner around by holding the skate(s)/boot(s) or leg(s) only with fully extended arm(s) or by holding the hand(s) with full arm extension by both partners;
- Lifted partner in upside down split pose (with sustained angle between thighs more than 45 degrees)**;
* It is NOT considered as an illegal lift if:

• the point of contact of the lifting hand/arm of the lifting partner with any part of the body of the lifted partner is not sustained higher than the lifting partner’s head;
• the lifting hand/arm which is used for support or balancing only or which touches any part of the body of the lifted partner is not sustained by the lifting partner higher than his head for more than 2 seconds.

** A brief movement through an upside down split pose (with any angle between thighs) will be permitted if it is not established (sustained) or if it is used only to change pose.

Jumps (or throw jumps) of more than one (1) revolution or jumps of one (1) revolution skated at the same time by both partners;
Lying on the ice.

[hlp728]

Thanks for the info BittyBug. It also looked like they have a throw type move which comes after the curved lift where Emily's legs are wrapped around Todd's waist which is at about the last 15 seconds. Not sure if that would be considered a throw jump.

[Debbie S]

Thanks for the info BittyBug. It also looked like they have a throw type move which comes after the curved lift where Emily's legs are wrapped around Todd's waist which is at about the last 15 seconds. Not sure if that would be considered a throw jump.

Even if it is considered a throw, it is not more than 1 rev, so it's within the rules. D/W did a similar throw move at the end of one of their lifts in the Phantom of the Opera FD and they never received a deduction.

Looks like it's either the hands above the head or the sitting on the partner's shoulder that was the issue.

[kwanfan1818]

This was the only way to ensure that they could get a season's best so that they were eligible for GPs next season, so though it might have been early in their partnership, they kind of needed to go for it.

I understand it as an attempt, but if the GP minimum rules stay the same -- i.e. GP minimum = 2/3 season's highest score -- 106.74 won't cut it. V/M have already earned 178.34, and 2/3 of that is 118.89.

[blue_idealist]

Goldenskate FD article said that possibly one of transitional moves was counted as an extra lift. Or maybe it is that last lift (it seemed a little off).

As far as their sectionals, the only names I recognize are Chock/Bates and Litchman/Copely, Samuelson/Gilles from those 8. Here's to wishing them the best at sectionals and beyond!!!

I think Samuelson/Gilles may be able to overtake Lichtman/Copely as the season goes on. They weren't so far behind them at CoC, and Licthman/Copely still look rough around the edges (rougher than S/G in basic skating IMO).

[Jayar]

They will have lots of feedback that they can utilize for Sectionals. They deserve props for what they have accomplished so far. The unfit comments are uncalled for.

Well, maybe in terms of competitive skaters, they are. Todd has said that he has been sore from practice, and after having a year away from competition, I would expect that it takes a bit to get back into peak shape. I bet they are completely different skaters in January in San Jose.

[hlp728]

In her blog (great blog on her Facebook page by the way), Emily mentioned that she and Todd have a lot to do before they are in competition shape again.

She also states how they'be been together 2 full months, have had the programs for 1 month, and started doing full run-throughs 2 weeks before Cup of China (only 5 SD and 6 FD run-throughs before China).

Also, there is a cute picture of her and Todd posing in front of a restaurant called the Dancing Bear.

[mia joy]

It's not like Emily forgot how to skate somewhere on the road and she used to be fabulous and ranked around 10th in the World with Evan, if I recall right. I see them overtake many other teams as they train more, polish their programs and simply "feel" each other better in this partnership.

My only concern is that Chock/Bates are from the S/Z camp, which I think automatically puts them in a better position for the future than Samuelson/Gilles. This and the fact they had more time to prepare for the season. Plus, I am also angry with the entire situation, Evan having her wait for him to heal the entire season just to dump her and leave her with nothing. This is also why I can't get myself to like C/B, regardless of my liking for their FD.