After a long delay . . . skatecast #50: interview with David Kirby, IJS master

[manleywoman]

Sorry for the wait everyone! Having two kids is kicking my butt.

Episode #50 is an interview with David Kirby, who knows everything there is to know about figure skating. His father show skated with Sonia Henie. His parents were Canadian champions. He’s been a Novice champion. He skated in Ice Capades. He owns ice rinks. He coaches. He is PSA President. He’s one of the first members of the IJS Technical Committee. He runs SkateRadio. He’s a consultant on skating movies. Did I miss anything? In other words, he is a very interesting interview subject! He also has some amazing insights into IJS and we had a lively discussion on how the mainstream media handles it.

Hear about how he lived in a motor home with the Protopopovs, and why Sonia Henie once gave him a quarter. The episode is 1 hour, 25 minutes, 50 seconds.

And there's a giveaway:
One lucky winner can win a copy of the book written by David Kirby’s father Michael Kirby: “Figure Skating to Fancy Skating-Memoirs of the Life of Sonja Henie.” It’s a fascinating read about what it was like traveling the world with Sonia Henie and her shows, and thought on skating at the time. It’s a wonderful book for any skater’s library.

Listen here: http://www.manleywoman.com

Next episode is PJ Kwong. I'll try to get it up asap.

Thanks and let me know what you think!

[pair mom]

But you forgot to mention that he is THE most charming man to meet in person! I had the pleasure at the JGP in Lake Placid a couple of years back....

And when he gets talking about skating in general, or pairs in particular...you just want to pull up a chair and take it all in...He is fascinating!

Many thanks for this interview....

[skatesindreams]

Thanks so much, mamleywoman!

[Willowway]

How coincidentally timely - he resigned the PSA presidency suddenly yesterday. Maybe just too much on his plate right now.

[ryanbfan]

How fun since I see him all the time at the galleria Will have to have a listen!

[julieann]

What a wonderful interview! I would love to hear him (nd you!) on air rather than Scott and friends who give no useful information.

Great job! I love your interviews!!!

[manleywoman]

Thanks everyone who has listened so far.

How coincidentally timely - he resigned the PSA presidency suddenly yesterday. Maybe just too much on his plate right now.

Yes, very odd timing!

[aftershocks]

Great interview, and very informative. His take on IJS is quite interesting and timely -- the improvements he suggests can't come fast enough, but he's a visionary talking about 50 years down the line. "Components are very hard to judge. Even if you have a Master's degree in the Arts, you would have a difficult time assessing these five components for a skater." ITA, however, altho' Kirby acknowledged the importance of the artistic side of the sport, he didn't fully explain how he felt both sides of scoring can be developed effectively so that the technical doesn't take precedence over the artistic, or over the whole of a program, not just breaking it up into parts for individual assessment. And, exactly how does the IJS allow for growth in improving the judging of the component side to keep up with the ability eventually for a "machine" to measure the technical side??

Thanks manleywoman for asking the question about Chan as an example of the problems of assessing components under IJS! Too bad Kirby hadn't resigned already and couldn't answer very specifically!

[manleywoman]

I had to take down the podcast for a day for a technical glitch, but it's back up. Please give it a listen if you haven't already. Thanks

[Lanna]

Downloading now.

[caseyedwards]

I was wondering how is someone an IJS master so I listened to the interview and it was interesting. I forgot he was the guy on the in house radio system in Vancouver. People here wrote some things he was saying about one of my favorite skaters and I didn't like it. Very true about TV can do a better job in covering skating. Who doesn't want to throw stuff at the TV when Scott Hamilton commentates? LOL. Seriously. I am sure they don't want to clutter up the screen when the skaters are performing but seriously on a tape delayed or even a live event their is no reason not to post the scores as the skaters are skating. You have the protocols and the event is all done do a better job. I think the tape delayed GP events on NBC are great opportunity to get the system known better.

[LynnW]

I'm listening now. I love the idea of Skate Radio on the television broadcasts. What a fabulous idea! In the alternative, if the powers that be don't want to play Skate Radio on TV, I wish they would broadcast on Ice Network.

Good interview. Thanks.

[fsfan22]

Next episode is PJ Kwong. I'll try to get it up asap.

PJ is fantastic! I can't wait!!

[skatesindreams]

Thanks for such an insightful interview, manleywoman,
I learned a great deal from it.

[manleywoman]

Thanks.

[Jenna]

I think what the ISU could do to improve the public's understanding of IJS is allow everyone to access the protocols for each individual skater as they perform.

That would eliminate a lot of the as we can read it and see "Oh, wow, 4 jumps downgraded, or "Gee, all level two spins," etc.

[gkelly]

It would be informative.

The question is how to do so efficiently.

The downgrades and edge calls aren't finalized "as they perform" -- someone on the panel calls for a review and the calls are made after the program, usually after reviewing video.

Same for many of the levels.

Any information that could be displayed during the program would be tentative -- maybe there could be symbol or a color code for elements with reviews requested, but obviously the results of the review wouldn't be known yet.

If there are a lot of reviews, it can take several minutes between the end of the program and the time when the calls are finalized, at which point the judges have the chance to change their GOEs for the jumps with <, <<, or e calls before finalizing their scores.

(With an efficient panel and elements that are very clear and don't need video review, it may take just a few seconds.)

So when the scores are finalized in the computer, that would be the time to display them publicly. Originally announcers read out all five PCS separately, but the consensus was it took too much time and they went to just reading TES, total PCS, and total score.

I think in long programs they don't even give the total segment score, just the total for the event as a whole to show immediately what the skater's overall standing is.

The first most informative thing that could be announced after a long program is the skater's ranking in the long program standings so far in addition to overall standings. That would clear up a lot of confusion. (This was also an issue under 6.0.) And it would only take a few more seconds.

Maybe what they could do is display a graphic on the jumbotron in events that have access to one, listing all the elements including downgrades etc. Don't spend any more time reading scores out loud (except the long program total and/or ranking), but have the information visible for audience members who are already knowledgeable enough to understand what "3Lz<+3T<< e" means.

This info could also be available online for those diehard fans who bring laptops to the arena or follow along at home.

TV networks could also show that information on the side of the TV screen while showing the skater in the kiss and cry. There probably wouldn't be time to discuss it before the next skater begins, but maybe a commentator could work in a quick comment likeor "four of the jumps got underrotation calls or downgrades, she lost a lot of points there" or "she got no credit for that flying spin."

But educating new viewers to understand the codes and jargon can't be done effectively during the time between when the skater's scores are finalized and the time when the next skater's name is called. The time it takes to explain would bore experienced fans who already know the drill as well as casual viewers who couldn't care less what the scores mean.

At best, at competitions the information can be provided for spectators in the program, and networks could include a brief segment about reading scorecards/protocols at the beginning of each broadcast.

The detailed protocols, with all the judges' individual scores, can be available online, or on paper for a fee in the arena at the conclusion of the event. This is often already the case.

And TV networks have access to them, but at best they might have time to pick out a couple interesting points to highlight for viewers at the end of the event. During a break, e.g., a resurface during a live broadcast, they can focus on skaters who have already skated and analyze their interim protocols. That would be an informative use of wait time.

[manleywoman]

All good thoughts. There does need to be something shown on the screen that explains the scores more readily, I agree.

[Visaliakid]

Mr. Kirby's references to what the ISU is considering to advance the technical scoring side of the IJS are fascinating. Barcoding the bottom/heel of the skateboots to accurately measure, over-the-ice speed and flow; jump height, and speed of spins is already technically capable of being done. There is soooo much to digest from this interview. Congrats Allison!

[shan]

I so enjoyed this interview! Thanks for sharing.