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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    So, Joubert has a great butt, doesn't he?
    Exactly. Men are viewed as sexual objects all the time.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Exactly. Men are viewed as sexual objects all the time.
    Ah but see, if they aren't viewed as sexual objects, they still have something going for them.

    When men talk about women as sexual objects, it's usually implied that women would have nothing going for them if they weren't sexually attractive.

  3. #23

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    Good point Anita18. I think Max and Tony from DWTS are hot as hell, but if I had the chance to spend time with them I'd like to talk dance or better yet, get a dancing lesson, not just drool over them, LOL!

    I guess I just can't imagine myself sitting at a table with some of my male friends and seeing a Max or a Tony and telling the boys how great their dancer asses are and how I'd like to pinch said butt. Of course, if I did so, I'd probably offend them; not by what I was saying, but because I was suggesting these guys are hotter than they are!!!

    I think many of these guys will learn as they get older and have what I call the "Eric Clapton" moment; before his current marriage, Clapton commented that he was in his 50's and jamming in a club with some friends and he spotted a very attractive girl in her early 20s and was essentially ogling her. She looked over and he saw this "look of revulsion on her face" that said "you're old enough to be my father" and made him realize he was getting too old to do this anymore. Of course, we won't mention that his current wife is 36 to his 66...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  4. #24

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    Men still maintain a majority of the highest paid and most powerful occupations, but women are catching them and will soon be passing them if this trend continues.
    This is nonsense. Women still earn 70 cents on the male dollar and much less in some nations. In others, they aren't even allowed to work. Yes, some women are attaining positions of power and status, but this has just shifted the hierarchy around a bit. A few women are on the top rungs, more are in the middle, but women are hugely over-represented at the bottom in all societies.

    And sure, more women are pursuing higher education - because they can. But that doesn't mean they will surpass men in the job market.

    The New York Times published a doozy of an article on the subject of women outdoing men in school a few years ago. Like this article, it bemoaned the impact of women's academic achievements on men. It comes down to nothing more than sexism.

    [QUOTE=Ice Alissa]
    A few years ago I saw a number saying that the majority of graduating class in med schools are women and that medicine is becoming a woman's profession.

    Except this doesn't mean that women doctors will earn the same status and doctors as male doctors. I remember reading that the US hospitals which favoured hiring women were lower paying ones. And, women are less likely to pursue medical specialties such as surgeon because of the hours involved. Just as many women are lawyers, but few make partner.

    Also, when women come to dominate a field, the economic value associated with it tends to go down. In Russia, where most doctors are women, their salary is lower than male dominated professions. We see that here as well - psychologists, a female dominated profession, earn less than engineers, a male dominated field, although both have PhDs. It's a disturbing but consistent trend. Catherine McKinnon asked "why do women have to do what men do, just to get what men get by being men?', But women haven't got what men get because the who is doing a certain profession is important. It's another barrier for women that impedes their quest for equality and one that's difficult to negotiate.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 10-05-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    Ah but see, if they aren't viewed as sexual objects, they still have something going for them.

    When men talk about women as sexual objects, it's usually implied that women would have nothing going for them if they weren't sexually attractive.
    I don't find that to be the case but that's anecdotal.

    Japanfan, again, anecdotally, when I was doing research, the team of three surgeons were all female, including a head of a major medical center.

    The disparity that I did see was in urology. It's traditionally a male dominated profession but finally there was a female urology resident and it was a big deal. I see lots of females in other surgical professions, including plastic surgery, one of the most lucrative specialties. Dermatology is another.

    Pediatrics is the lowest paid specialty IIRC. I find this ironic, but that's for another thread. A lot of pediatricians whom I've asked abou their choice of specialty had said that with kids most of the time when they get sick, they get well. So it's a relatively happy specialty. Hours are never mentioned. Pediatrics are usually female-dominated and the hours aren't great what with call, admissions and everything.

    We can ask our in house pediatrician Lara for details.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I don't find that to be the case but that's anecdotal.
    This may be true....but I think to women it may feel that way for a not very good reason. Which needs some context....I find that women are less likely than men to develop themselves in ways other than attractiveness and niceness. So sometimes there is no "there" there with women underneath the surface of their appearance and soft voices.

    Men are more likely to make themselves funny, or atheletic, or smart if they aren't good looking as a way to fit in and be liked. Women sometimes do these things too but not as often as men. I bet most people here know more funny men than women. And funny can be developed 'cause I know guys that have consciously worked on it.
    What would Jenny do?

  7. #27
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    What drives me is the perception that a woman should not be attractive to be taken seriously or to be promoted to executive positions. Same in politics, good looks are a hindrance.

    Basically, the more a woman looks like a man (no heels, shapeless suits), the more chances there are for promotion to a leadership position.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I'm not sure what Bennett's data proves. Church attendance does not automatically make you mature. A college degree does not make you mature. And the wage data is questionable. He cites a range of 1970 to 2007 and points to women's wages going up significantly. There are any number of reasons for that rise that are not related to anyone's maturity.
    I can't speak for all faiths and denominations but at my church it is predominatly female attendance. My pastor mentions frequently to the young men(boys) in the church that they have place there and talks about maturity, responsibity and being involved in your family's life.
    College does and should teach discipline with is needed for maturity.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    What drives me is the perception that a woman should not be attractive to be taken seriously or to be promoted to executive positions. Same in politics, good looks are a hindrance.

    Basically, the more a woman looks like a man (no heels, shapeless suits), the more chances there are for promotion to a leadership position.
    Oh the "dumb" down the looks to exceed issue.

    I agree
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  10. #30

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    I think you guys are stuck in the 80's. Attractive women have an advantagw in the work place. Granted, not hoocie mamie types but fit healthy looking women get ahead.
    What would Jenny do?

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