Elizaveta Tuktamysheva wins 2011 Japan Open

[kwanatic]

Yes you can have that argument. Many coaching and skater teams will focus on certain aspects of the skating, whether it be jumps or spins. I think the spins have probably been sacrificed for the jumps. I don't blame the skater but rather the coaching team.

Valid point; that does put the blame on her coaches. It's possible to have good spins and good jumps at the same time. There has to be a balance between all of it: spins, jumps, spirals, execution, performance, interpretation, etc. Liza's got most of things down but she does still needs some work...and at 14 years old, that's just fine.

Considering how snarky we can get, I think the comments on her skating have been pretty tame and constructive in nature. I don't think there was anything unrealistic suggested for things that she can improve and work on.

ITA. We all know she's still developing. I don't think anyone can deny that she is a talented jumper with the potential to be a champion...BUT she still has a lot to work on: posture, spins, better choreography, flow, etc. The good news is she's only 14 which means (barring some unforeseen circumstances) she has the next two Olympic cycles and then some to improve her skating. That's encouraging....

Liza need better art direction and better programs. For me this Bésame Mucho FS program is an artistic failure, not to say it is not capable of winning. I think she is a musical skater with excellent interpretative skills as shown in her exhibitions programs, but were not fully utilized in her LP.

I agree completely. I'm not a fan of her programs...at all really. I'm doing my best to accept that this just might be her style (up-tempo, energy pieces) and not criticize her for it. It's all a matter of preference and I prefer a slightly more traditional style. Regardless, the edit of the music is pretty choppy and there's not a lot of cohesion to the program. Again, I'll forgive her b/c she is a fresh-off-the-JGP skater even though some of her skills say otherwise. Hopefully in the future we'll see better music/choreography from her. But for now, I guess her Besame Mucho program will do...but I'm not a fan of it though...

How many of them can skate as fast as she can, have all five female triples with perfect technique, and have the stamina to do a six triple program with two different 3-3 combinations, including one almost four minutes in? I mean, Yuna had completely terrible spin positions at a much later age, if we're pretending to put this in perspective. I believe Liza still goes to school full-time as well.

I'm impressed by Liza's jump technique and capabilities, and she does have decent speed as well. It's great that her technical content is so solid this early.

As for Yu-Na, when she began in 2006 her spins (like her skating) were a little bit awkward and clunky, but still good with lots of potential. By 2008, she'd worked on cleaning up her positions and had increased her speed as well. Her back position in her layback is superb as is her speed; her centering is good; her arm and leg positions are average. Her Biellmann position was decent, but last year she bumped it up to good. Her layover camel position is superb; her sit spins are very good. Her combination spin has good speed but the positions are just a tab bit better than average. No, Yu-Na will probably never be as great a spinner as Alissa or Mirai, but she worked with what she had and improved upon it and, as a result, she's a good spinner.

I say all that to say, with some work, Liza's spins can get better too.

[senorita]

I don't see her layback getting to Mirai/Alissa territory at anytime in the future and that's fine....

And I dont see Mirai/Alissa getting to Liza jump tecnique territory at anytime in the past, present or future, but that is fine as well

[bek]

Valid point; that does put the blame on her coaches. It's possible to have good spins and good jumps at the same time. There has to be a balance between all of it: spins, jumps, spirals, execution, performance, interpretation, etc. Liza's got most of things down but she does still needs some work...and at 14 years old, that's just fine.

Name a skater who has amazing jumps and spins right now. (I'm thinking Irina in her hey day but Irina had other issues) Liza isn't a great spinner by any means and obviously she needs to work on it. But its not like the great spinners she keeps on getting compared to are great spinners.

And a lot of these great spinners are great spinners because they have great flexibility. I know Kim supposedly when she was young tried to work on getting that kind of flexibility and reports are it affected her jumps.....

[gkelly]

Often it seems to me that the most amazing spins happen at the junior level, when the skaters are still small and flexible.

As they grow the flexibility often decreases (although the body awareness often increases), and also small skaters can spin much faster than larger ones.

On the other hand, the juniors have often been at the game long enough to have developed higher level skills than the even smaller skaters at lower levels.

[pinky166]

She's a talent for sure, but still has stuff to work on (mainly spins). But she definitely is special and has the "wow" factor. I'm gonna wait before I get too excited though because right now she is still SO little (just look at the pics from Japan Open, the girl is clearly well under 5' tall and I doubt will stay that way for long....). Puberty monster could still come in and ruin her career.

[kwanatic]

Name a skater who has amazing jumps and spins right now. (I'm thinking Irina in her hey day but Irina had other issues) Liza isn't a great spinner by any means and obviously she needs to work on it. But its not like the great spinners she keeps on getting compared to are great spinners.

Did you mean to say great jumpers?

There are a number of girls who are good jumpers and great spinners, but aren't necessarily as clean in terms of technique. Julia Lipnitskaia is a great jumper in addition to being a mind-boggling spinner...Zijun Li has high, airy jumps and amazing spins...Polina Shelepen has great jumps and very good spins...

All of the aforementioned are dinged with edge calls occasionally, so in terms of technique, Liza T trumps them. As I've said, everyone can't be completely perfect at everything: perfection is boring. What counts is doing what you do well and making what you can do work for you.

And I dont see Mirai/Alissa getting to Liza jump tecnique territory at anytime in the past, present or future, but that is fine as well

Well, that's true in terms of Alissa but in terms of Mirai and the past, I say take a second look.

Prior to Mirai's growth spurt she had big and difficult jumps that covered a lot of ice...and no edge calls either. Add that to her incredible speed, spins and spirals and it'd be interesting to compare a 14 year old Mirai to a 14 year old Liza T...but that's neither here nor there. Mirai is in a bit of a technique rut as of right now and Liza's not; we'd have to see what happens when Liza hits that dreaded growth spurt.

But then again, I wonder if Liza is done growing? She seems to be a little taller this season than she was at junior worlds earlier this year, but she still looks pretty small compared to the other ladies. If she stays that size that'd be a huge advantage for her. Even if she does grow a few more inches, her technique looks to be solid enough that it shouldn't affect her jumps too much. We'd have to see though...

[Eris]

But then again, I wonder if Liza is done growing? She seems to be a little taller this season than she was at junior worlds earlier this year, but she still looks pretty small compared to the other ladies. If she stays that size that'd be a huge advantage for her. Even if she does grow a few more inches, her technique looks to be solid enough that it shouldn't affect her jumps too much. We'd have to see though...

I don't see her growing a lot, but her body proportions may change, they're still a bit childish.

[millipied]

Did you mean to say great jumpers?

But then again, I wonder if Liza is done growing? She seems to be a little taller this season than she was at junior worlds earlier this year, but she still looks pretty small compared to the other ladies. If she stays that size that'd be a huge advantage for her. Even if she does grow a few more inches, her technique looks to be solid enough that it shouldn't affect her jumps too much. We'd have to see though...

There was some lengthy discussion last year on one Russian board on this topic. Apparently she comes from a family of tiny people, both mother and father are tiny and her nationality (Tatar) is also known in Russia as people who do not usually grow too tall. But that might not be the case with her. In any case, we don't have to wait too long.

[peibeck]

I find her shoulders , her bent right knee in the spins, and some of the use of her hands and arms in this program very, very distracting.

That being said, her jumps are sublime, and I'm excited about her potential. And whether she adds a 3A to her arsenal or not, she certainly has proven she does not need it to win. I don't think we should be annointing her a Sochi medal just yet though.

As for fixing any of the things she needs to work on, I guess we will have to wait and see. If she is winning everything in sight right out of the gate, I worry that they will not feel she needs to develop better technique on her spins, or improving the speed in her footwork sequence.

[kwanatic]

I find her shoulders , her bent right knee in the spins, and some of the use of her hands and arms in this program very, very distracting.
.

I agree. Her lines are a little distracting. I kept wondering what it was about her that's kind of off...it's her posture and the position of her arms and hands when she skates.

I guess I better get used to mentioning Adelina's name when it comes to Liza T b/c they are the ones going head to head in terms of the newbies. I do think Adelina's posture and lines are better than Liza's. I think that's also helped by Adelina's height and length. She has long arms and legs and (thankfully) she has very nice extension which helps her appearance on the ice.

I heard Adelina did a test skate a day or so ago; I really hope someone got some footage of her. I'd love to see where she is at this point.

[briancoogaert]

Her jumping technique is really good at the take-off, but her body is broken in the landing. So, I guess it will be a problem as she grows up.
I'm not fond of her style, very juniorish. But she is still young, it explains. Great potential

[Proustable]

The best thing about her being so young is that it gives me a while to learn how to spell her last name!

[Sasha'sSpins]

Here is the video for Alissa's performance:-

Alissa Czisny

Thank you Maofan!

[muffinbiscuit]

I would be a lot more excited about Elizaveta if Mishin weren't her coach. All I can think about is Plushy. Great everything, but i could never get excited about watching him as I could, say Lambiel or johnny Weir [in his heydey]. Right now I am rooting for Adelina.

[Maofan7]

Here is Joannie Rochette's skate from the Japan Open 2011:-

Joannie Rochette

[mgobluegirl]

Tuktamysheva was fantastic, but her layback is fugly.