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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Umm, I saw lots of 3T- double combos until after the 1990-91 season, not much different than in 1980. The notable exceptions were Ito, Harding, Yamaguchi, and Trenary ... Trenary, of course, regressing from 3F-double attempts to 3T after she believed her figures were enough to keep her lead going into the Freeskate.
    I'm with Bartoob here.

    Apart from Ito, Harding, Yamaguchi and Trenary, the top 18 skates from the 1980 Olympics are available on Youtube.

    Many of the lower ranked ladies after figures, had triple jumps to spare. Skaters like Ivanova, Dubravcic and Reideger included 4 or 5 triple jumps in their free skates alone.

    Admittedly, this was before the Zayak rule, so that would account for the multiple triple toe loops and salchows.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The judges who had Annett over Poetzsch in the end by 0.1 and 0.2 would have had to change their short program mark by 0.3 to 0.5 to have had Fratianne ahead though. Only the long program marks directly are worth that, the short program scores were only 40% the value of the long program scores. Also Poetzsch's SP scores in Lake Placid were lower than Jill Trenary got in her SP at the Worlds TEN years later for doing an even easier combination.
    Hmmm. You've given me an idea. I was going to increase Linda's SP scores by 0.1 across the board and decrease Annett's by 0.1 just to see what the tallies would be. Isn't there a site that lists all of the scores from every olympics?

  3. #23

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.H.Black View Post
    Here's another video - Robin Cousins exhibition performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpGOA3l57TY&feature=fvst

    I'm not usually a huge fan of show skating but this is one of my all time favorite skates. Great flow and wonderful choreography. Too bad the ABC version isn't on youtube. Dick Button loved this performance and so did Jim McKay. A small piece of trivia - the two young children at the end of the Michael Jackson number giving flowers to Robin are Dick Button's children and his wife is in the background.

    I also think this number makes a great argument for show skating to be performed in full lighting. I don't think I would like it near as much in spot lights.
    Thank you so much for posting this link. If I could pin point a performance that transformed me from a casual skating fan pre-1980 to a "fanatic", it is this exhibition by Robin Cousins.

  5. #25

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    Very few skaters have combined mastery, emotional range and performance level - with the ability to convey that to the audience - as Robin did.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Busy day at work . I'll take a look tomorrow

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Pairs

    Gold: Irina Rodnina & Alexander Zaitsev - USSR

    Short Program

    Long Program

    Silver: Marina Cherkasova & Sergei Shakhrai - USSR

    No Video's Available - If anybody knows of any on the net or is able to upload them on to YouTube, please do so.

    Bronze: Manuela Mager & Uwe Bewersdorf - East Germany

    No Video's Available - If anybody knows of any on the net or is able to upload them on to YouTube, please do so.

    Cherkasova & Shakhrai:

    SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35kSvTVCeks
    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOjt...hannel&list=UL

    Mager & Bewersdorf:

    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Msg..._order&list=UL

    I do have their SP but the video quality is shocking. They skated clean but you're not missing much.

  8. #28
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    OK. Not as busy at work

    Scenario #1 - Linda's scores in the SP were low IMO [even if she won the SP]. I increased each mark by 0.1 on each judge's card, technical mark and artistic mark [except the ITA judge who already gave her a 5.9 for artistry; I wasn't going to give Linda a 6.0]. Annett's scores in the SP were too high IMO. I decreased each mark by 0.1 on each judge's card, technical mark and artistic mark

    new LF range in the SP - tech: 5.7 - 5.9; artistic: 5.8 - 5.9 [hit everything including the 3sal-2loop]
    new AP range in the SP - tech: 5.3 - 5.5; artistic: 5.4 - 5.6 [2-2 only; off axis 2x, and nearly in tears in the K & C]

    CFs and LP the same

    Linda wins ironically on a 7-2 split. She flips the judges from West Germany, Austria, Finland, Italy and Switzerland, and keeps the judges from the US and Japan. Score - 11 ordinals / 188.98 vs. 16 ordinals / 188.28 for Annett.

    Scenario #2 - Linda's scores were high enough [not IMO, but...], but Annett's marks considered high. I drop only Annett's marks on each judge's card by 0.1. Linda's stays the same.

    CFs and LP the same

    Anett wins infinitesimally on a 5-4 split. Linda only flips the judges from Finland and Switzerland and keeps the US and Japan judges. Linda only loses the West German judge by .02, the Austrian judge by .04, and the Italian judge by .06 . Score - 13 ordinals / 188.28 vs. 14 ordinals / 188.30 for Linda. Linda actually beats Anett on raw numbers but only has 4 judges a la Jan Hoffmann in the men's event.

    Imagine FC in that scenario

  10. #30
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    I thought Linda's marks in both programs were plenty high enough. I never considered her a 5.9 caliber skater to be honest. Also she won the short program decisively, over a more talented skater like Biellmann who also skated cleanly, what more could one want.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I thought Linda's marks in both programs were plenty high enough. I never considered her a 5.9 caliber skater to be honest. Also she won the short program decisively, over a more talented skater like Biellmann who also skated cleanly, what more could one want.
    I disagree. She was excellent in the SP and I don't recall a single mistake, hitting every jump and nonjump element. She was incoming world champ and she did the hardest combo [3sal-2loop] the cleanest [Lisa Marie Allen's was squicky] along with a big 2x, fast centered spins, etc. But, as you can see by my last post, this is just about fantasy and what it would've taken to win.

    And I honestly think Anett's marks were too high in the SP. You can see by her reactions in the K & C that even she was expecting worse [the near tears giving way to a smile of relief].

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I thought Linda's marks in both programs were plenty high enough. I never considered her a 5.9 caliber skater to be honest. Also she won the short program decisively, over a more talented skater like Biellmann who also skated cleanly, what more could one want.
    The GOLD MEDAL. DUH !

    The marks were supposed to act as place holders anyway. If Linda had skated last in either the SP or LP then perhaps the judges would have thrown some 5.9s her way. I don't think of Linda as a 5.9 skater when compared to skaters like Hamill, Fleming, etc., but she was probably a 5.9./5.8-ish skater for the 77-80 period, which I think many considered was a weak era in women's figure skating. The men - Cousins, Tickner - had so much better choreography and skating during that time. I wonder why no one on the women side gave them the same challenging programs.

  13. #33

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    It was a matter of image, I believe.

    Ladies were expected to be pretty/feminine.
    If power and athleticism entered the equation, it was expected to be very well "disguised".

    That changed (somewhat) later.

  14. #34
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    The early 80's were the golden age of British figure skating, with Robin Cousins winning the OGM, Torvil & Dean coming up, eventually to win the gold in '84, as well as Nicky Slater (now British Eurosport commentator) & Karen Barber, British No 2 ice dancers in top 5 or 6 AND Betty Callaway, coach of the Hungarian couple, later of T&D, then afterwards commentator on BBC, eloquently narrating Bestemianova & Bukin performances!! BBC was full of figure skating and I loved it.
    I also remember the rise of Tai & Randy, and it was such a fresh change, from Rodnina & Co. Can someone tell me who first did throw jumps in competitions? Rodnina did twists only, Tai did both throws & twists, but I don't know if she was the first ever.

  15. #35

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    Not sure who was first (would take more research than I have time for right now), but here's a throw 2A from before Tai & Randy were seniors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRjCTY1m7x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Cherkasova & Shakhrai:

    SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35kSvTVCeks
    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOjt...hannel&list=UL

    Mager & Bewersdorf:

    LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Msg..._order&list=UL

    I do have their SP but the video quality is shocking. They skated clean but you're not missing much.
    Hi floskate,

    Many many thanks for uploading the missing videos. Really appreciate it.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Not sure who was first (would take more research than I have time for right now), but here's a throw 2A from before Tai & Randy were seniors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRjCTY1m7x4
    gkelly, thank you.

  18. #38
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    Throw jumps were around in the mid 1960's - throw axels - but like gkelly I would need to do some research to be sure. BTW Rodnina did do throw axels in the late 60's and early 70's, particularly in exhibitions.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    BTW Rodnina did do throw axels in the late 60's and early 70's, particularly in exhibitions.
    Thank you, Floskate. I will view them on youtube.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Throw jumps were around in the mid 1960's - throw axels - but like gkelly I would need to do some research to be sure. BTW Rodnina did do throw axels in the late 60's and early 70's, particularly in exhibitions.
    Here's one EX - Irina Rodnina / Alexei Ulanov - Kalinka (1969)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwenyjU6w9E

    Wonderful to see this in such HQ.
    Forgive me, if I've "hijacked" the thread!

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