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  1. #21
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    ^^ Tend to agree with previous points made by orbitz and olympic. I might enjoy D/C more if they could find the right music and choreo that suits them and accentuates their strengths, which is not easy to do. Agree that they should have thought about varying the musical style and approach for their lp -- the sp is okay -- trying to do something similar in the lp does tend to highlight their deficiencies.

    I'm thinking of a brother/ sister team who made a great splash at Nats one year with some exciting, dramatic music and choreo that worked wonders for them -- can't remember their names or title of their music, alas.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 09-27-2011 at 06:57 PM.

  2. #22

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    Are you referring to Danielle and Steve Hartsell?

    They were national champions in 1999, but I couldn't find vids from nationals.

    2001
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku6ASZNutY SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQoRF...eature=related LP

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    Okay fair enough, but I wish they had paired this SP w/ something more dynamic in the LP. (Maybe dynamic isn't the right word.)
    Very true

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ I'm thinking of a brother/ sister team who made a great splash at Nats one year with some exciting, dramatic music and choreo that worked wonders for them -- can't remember their names or title of their music, alas.
    Ginger and Archie Tse? That's going back a few years.
    "awwww....shades of Janet Lynn" - Dick Button on anyone who makes more than one mistake in their program.

  5. #25
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    Ah, yes, thanks shan! It is the Hartsells I was thinking of -- Thanks for posting those vids. Perfect examples of finding the right music and choreo to accentuate your strengths. Skating, scoring, choreo, competition challenges maybe weren't quite as difficult then, but still the Hartsells in their dream season is a perfect example of improving by accentuating your strengths as a pair.

  6. #26

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    Not to make the thread drift, but while the Hartsells were never my favorite pair, they had speed and attack that some teams are lacking.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    I question the style choice in their music and choreography. To me it emphasizes the deficiencies in their presentation. It would have been nice to see them have a different style for at least one of their programs.


    I can't understand why would John ditch Caitlin for Denney if they're going to continue in the same lyrical snot style he had with Yankowkas

    I mean, the comparisons are horrible but inevitable and with this new pair I'd have expect there was at least a void potential, if not going through a different route than the classical/lyrical stereotypical pairs stuff. There are too many international pairs much better than them in this department, imo

  8. #28
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    Yes, I thought they'd do a movie score or something bombastic and fast. I thought the whole point was to be an athletic pair, not lyrical classical wannabes when they are not. Hmm.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    They need a real choreographer in Colorado Springs.
    EYS! Is Tom Dickson still there, gone into early retirement, or simply been hit-and-miss lately with his programs? He did some great work with Savoie, Abbott, and others.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by UMBS Go Blue View Post
    EYS! Is Tom Dickson still there, gone into early retirement, or simply been hit-and-miss lately with his programs? He did some great work with Savoie, Abbott, and others.
    Tom Dickson. I loved the FDs he choreographed for Summersett/Gilles. Has he ever choreographed for pairs?

  11. #31
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    I think that the expert commentators in this thread (and many others - see below) should elect a committee, get contact information for coaches and choreographers, and present all your findings and recommendations to them.

    Our pairs (and in other threads, other skaters) would become miraculously better in a very short time if that happened, would they not? No? I don't understand...

    (BTW, this isn't the only thread in which I've been tempted to post something similar to this. It seems that most posters who offer extensive criticism and suggestions to all sorts of skaters must really be in the wrong profession).
    "Skating fans are not a patient bunch." Dragonlady

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by VALuvsMKwan View Post
    I think that the expert commentators in this thread (and many others - see below) should elect a committee, get contact information for coaches and choreographers, and present all your findings and recommendations to them.

    Our pairs (and in other threads, other skaters) would become miraculously better in a very short time if that happened, would they not? No? I don't understand...

    (BTW, this isn't the only thread in which I've been tempted to post something similar to this. It seems that most posters who offer extensive criticism and suggestions to all sorts of skaters must really be in the wrong profession).
    If no one had an opinion, FSU would be a very boring. If everyone was posting smiling smilies and saying how great all the skaters are all the time...the place would have shut down long ago.

  13. #33

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    I agree this team screams "Epic Movie Soundtrack" from some action type flick. Get rid of the schoolteacher bun on Caitlyn and bring back the shag. I too thought they would go for a different look than the slow, classical boring stuff that does not showcase their strengths but emphasizes what isn't there.
    "awwww....shades of Janet Lynn" - Dick Button on anyone who makes more than one mistake in their program.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    If no one had an opinion, FSU would be a very boring. If everyone was posting smiling smilies and saying how great all the skaters are all the time...the place would have shut down long ago.


    Sorry, but its pretty obvious when all the programs coming out of one training area are bland vs. all the programs coming from another are quite good, clearly the problem is not the skaters. There's nothing wrong with those who want to offer suggestions to improve. Maybe those with a problem with such discussion can start another forum where everyone gives technical reports and praise only.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by VALuvsMKwan View Post
    I think that the expert commentators in this thread (and many others - see below) should elect a committee, get contact information for coaches and choreographers, and present all your findings and recommendations to them.

    Our pairs (and in other threads, other skaters) would become miraculously better in a very short time if that happened, would they not? No? I don't understand...

    (BTW, this isn't the only thread in which I've been tempted to post something similar to this. It seems that most posters who offer extensive criticism and suggestions to all sorts of skaters must really be in the wrong profession).
    I have no doubt in my mind that skaters troll message boards trying to get information on themselves or on other skaters. Just to see what people on here think of them, warts and all. Maybe they listen and maybe they don't.

  16. #36
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    I hope you noticed the in my post. OF COURSE people post opinions here, and I, least of all people, am not saying that nothing but praise and idolatry should be posted - far from it. That's isn't my point at all.

    My point is that most everyone here (here meaning in competition, practice watching, whatever type of threads) provide very specific suggestions for improvements in all areas from choreography to costuming to jump selection/layout, COP friendlness, etc. I am actually very impressed with the suggestions.

    But here is my real question, and I am quite serious in asking it - why is it that the "armchair" posters (no disrespect intended) seem to be so much more knowledgeable about such things, and able to provide such a volume of seemingly logical suggestions, that the professionals in coaching and choreography and actual skating are coming up with on their own?

    I was only half-joking when I commented that many posters seem to be in the wrong profession. It seems to me that some of you could do far more competent jobs than the "professionals".
    "Skating fans are not a patient bunch." Dragonlady

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by VALuvsMKwan View Post
    But here is my real question, and I am quite serious in asking it - why is it that the "armchair" posters (no disrespect intended) seem to be so much more knowledgeable about such things, and able to provide such a volume of seemingly logical suggestions, that the professionals in coaching and choreography and actual skating are coming up with on their own?
    Distance and the ability to provide objective analysis. This is not to say that the people here across the board are always right or better than those doing it or anything like that. But at times they are. And when you throw money and personal relationships and location and other priorities in the mix, things get muddied, and its not always possible for skaters to seek other choreographers and ballet classes and all those things. As fans of skating who have seen a lot, if someone asks, what can skater X do to improve, many FSUers can provide solid advice. And skating parents and coaches totally run the gamut from extremely educated to quite ignorant about the history of skating. Some coaches are in it more to pass on a lifelong love of the sport and others probably a bit more for the financial aspect so you get all kinds of stuff going on with their students and then each pupil picks things up differently also. Some coaches have had successful technical skaters with lacking presentation, but the skaters stay with the coach because of convenience and good results. So what can you do? I just think we have to hope that skaters will eventually do what is best for them and some will improve and others won't and that's much of the reason why the sport is so fascinating to watch unfold every season.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatemommy View Post
    I agree this team screams "Epic Movie Soundtrack" from some action type flick. Get rid of the schoolteacher bun on Caitlyn and bring back the shag. I too thought they would go for a different look than the slow, classical boring stuff that does not showcase their strengths but emphasizes what isn't there.
    I totally agree that Denney/Coughlin are better suited for Epic/Action/Suspense Movie or game soundtracks. It seemed like they tried micro-baby steps in their FD by picking a guitar version of that song.

    If I was in charge of them, my choice would be things like Battlestar Galactica (Kara remembers theme start at 1:20 to hear the drama), Hanna/Tron soundtracks, Mortal Kombat, Alien, Terminator. I would even suggest dark/horror movie soundtracks too like Rosemary's Baby, The Crow, etc.

  19. #39
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    Respect on the elements but they can't really skate (in the basic skating sense), they still move in a rather truck-driverish fashion and their choreography couldn't be more basic.

    Seeing the PCS they are getting is making my blood boil.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by iris81 View Post
    I could live without the electric guitar Nessun Dorma. Strangest instrument ever to take up the melody. . .

    They should totally do a Matrix program or something. She could get the shag haircut back and just goop it up a la Trinity.

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