JGP Baltic Cup 2011 - Ladies - Result & Videos

[Vash01]

I see you've now neg repped me on my post.

I doubt I would ever win a debate over Miyahira against you. With a name like "Maofan," its not very difficult to determine your bias..

That statement sounds very biased to me. If someone is a Mao fan, how does it follow that the person would root for Miyahara? Just because Miyahara is Japanese? I am a huge fan of Mao, but I am not Japanese. I am a fan of skating. Miyahara looked like a normal 13 year old from Asia to me, in the you tube link. These are, after all, junior ladies. I thought she was OK for her level. I was impressed with Lipnitskaya and I really hope she can develop as a top level skater at the senior level.

[Triple Butz]

That statement sounds very biased to me. If someone is a Mao fan, how does it follow that the person would root for Miyahara? Just because Miyahara is Japanese? I am a huge fan of Mao, but I am not Japanese. I am a fan of skating. Miyahara looked like a normal 13 year old from Asia to me, in the you tube link. These are, after all, junior ladies. I thought she was OK for her level. I was impressed with Lipnitskaya and I really hope she can develop as a top level skater at the senior level.

No one is saying Miyahara was not "okay for her level" but the fact is that in competition, you are compared to your competitors, and in this case, many of them are more advanced in the presentation department than Miyahara. At this stage, be it age, coaching, choreography, lack of experience, or other factors, Miyahara is not using her music or expressing her choreography. Is that acceptable for a junior skater in her first season? Of course! Does that mean those flaws should be ignored? Absolutely not. I'm sure she will continue to grow and develop in this area, but in the meantime, she needs to be scored accurately for what she puts out on the ice. One poster in particular seems to think judges should score PCS differently for different age groups which is absolutely nuts.

Oh, and Re: Cesario being too "senior" for the JGP:

She has zilch experience in international competition and she's a TEENAGER.


****
In all seriousness though, I'm glad the the officials running the Baltic Cup were accommodating enough to allow Sam access. It must have been difficult getting around the arena with her big, bulky walker. The USFSA also paid the travel for her live-in senior caregiver, I heard. And the fact that they let her use her walking stick on the ice during the competition is so progressive.

[shan]

No one is saying Miyahara was not "okay for her level" but the fact is that in competition, you are compared to your competitors, and in this case, many of them are more advanced in the presentation department than Miyahara....

entire post

Exactly!

[bek]

No one is saying Miyahara was not "okay for her level" but the fact is that in competition, you are compared to your competitors, and in this case, many of them are more advanced in the presentation department than Miyahara. At this stage, be it age, coaching, choreography, lack of experience, or other factors, Miyahara is not using her music or expressing her choreography. Is that acceptable for a junior skater in her first season? Of course! Does that mean those flaws should be ignored? Absolutely not. I'm sure she will continue to grow and develop in this area, but in the meantime, she needs to be scored accurately for what she puts out on the ice. One poster in particular seems to think judges should score PCS differently for different age groups which is absolutely nuts.

Oh, and Re: Cesario being too "senior" for the JGP:

She has zilch experience in international competition and she's a TEENAGER.

Asada, Kim, Kwan, Lipinski, Oksana were all world champs at Cesario's age-if not younger. Cesario's age is the age of a normal senior lady.

[Triple Butz]

Asada, Kim, Kwan, Lipinski, Oksana were all world champs at Cesario's age-if not younger. Cesario's age is the age of a normal senior lady.

There is no "normal age." The ages for Junior and Senior OVERLAP intentionally to allow competitors to compete where they feel most comfortable.
Leonova was older than ALL of the skaters you mentioned when she won the junior world title in 2009.

The only change I would agree with is that the age restrictions that apply to Worlds should also apply to the GP. I thought it was ridiculous in 06 to see Asada win the GPF and then have to go back to Jr Worlds (which she lost, interestingly) while her competitors went on to the Senior Worlds and Olympics.

[bek]

There is no "normal age." The ages for Junior and Senior OVERLAP intentionally to allow competitors to compete where they feel most comfortable.
Leonova was older than ALL of the skaters you mentioned when she won the junior world title in 2009.

The only change I would agree with is that the age restrictions that apply to Worlds should also apply to the GP. I thought it was ridiculous in 06 to see Asada win the GPF and then have to go back to Jr Worlds (which she lost, interestingly) while her competitors went on to the Senior Worlds and Olympics.

And I'm not sure how I feel about Leonova winning there either. Not to mention Leonova went on to Worlds that same year...All I'm saying is I don't think most 13 year olds can compete with 18 year olds in the presentation department......

[Triple Butz]

And I'm not sure how I feel about Leonova winning there either. Not to mention Leonova went on to Worlds that same year...All I'm saying is I don't think most 13 year olds can compete with 18 year olds in the presentation department......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtch28LdjKI#t=1m13s
Sure they can, and musical presentation is only one part of PCS. Posture, speed, edging, MITF, transitions all come to play.

[chipso1]

I see you've now neg repped me on my post.

Don't take it to heart. It neg-repped me too and called me a "complete idiot."

To each his own, I guess. Cesario has NEVER competed internationally as a senior, and has only done so ONCE at Nationals (2010). She has extremely limited international experience (2010 Gardena Spring Trophy and last year's JGP Romania), so I really don't think her appearance on this year's JGP is unwarranted at all.

What about Alexandra Najarro? Kate Charbonneau? What about Juulia Turkkila? She competed at the SENIOR Worlds last season! According to Maofan's logic, what the hell is she still doing on the JGP? I don't see anyone bitching about anybody but Cesario.

[Jenna]

In all seriousness though, I'm glad the the officials running the Baltic Cup were accommodating enough to allow Sam access. It must have been difficult getting around the arena with her big, bulky walker. The USFSA also paid the travel for her live-in senior caregiver, I heard. And the fact that they let her use her walking stick on the ice during the competition is so progressive.

Don't take it to heart. It neg-repped me too and called me a "complete idiot."

Classy, indeed!

What about Alexandra Najarro? Kate Charbonneau? What about Juulia Turkkila? She competed at the SENIOR Worlds last season! According to Maofan's logic, what the hell is she still doing on the JGP? I don't see anyone bitching about anybody but Cesario.

I suppose people are only bitching over Cesario because she's really good and might knock some of the young-uns out of the final.

[allezfred]

I see you've now neg repped me on my post.

Was there any part of the following that you didn't understand the first time I said it to you?

- Posting comments about having been repped or planning to rep someone on the board is frowned upon. Rep is nothing to be taken seriously.

[Vash01]

No one is saying Miyahara was not "okay for her level" but the fact is that in competition, you are compared to your competitors, and in this case, many of them are more advanced in the presentation department than Miyahara. At this stage, be it age, coaching, choreography, lack of experience, or other factors, Miyahara is not using her music or expressing her choreography. Is that acceptable for a junior skater in her first season? Of course! Does that mean those flaws should be ignored? Absolutely not. I'm sure she will continue to grow and develop in this area, but in the meantime, she needs to be scored accurately for what she puts out on the ice. One poster in particular seems to think judges should score PCS differently for different age groups which is absolutely nuts.

Oh, and Re: Cesario being too "senior" for the JGP:

She has zilch experience in international competition and she's a TEENAGER.


****
In all seriousness though, I'm glad the the officials running the Baltic Cup were accommodating enough to allow Sam access. It must have been difficult getting around the arena with her big, bulky walker. The USFSA also paid the travel for her live-in senior caregiver, I heard. And the fact that they let her use her walking stick on the ice during the competition is so progressive.

You missed my point completely. Jenna was accusing Maofan of being biased, just because her name is Maofan, assuming that she would root for a Japanese skater, regardless of skill. I was not criticizing Miyahara at all (read my post again; it may sound different the second time). The intent of my post was to respond to Jenna's biased (and IMO silly) remark about Maofan.

[Triple Butz]

You missed my point completely. Jenna was accusing Maofan of being biased, just because her name is Maofan, assuming that she would root for a Japanese skater, regardless of skill. I was not criticizing Miyahara at all (read my post again; it may sound different the second time). The intent of my post was to respond to Jenna's biased (and IMO silly) remark about Maofan.

Sorry if I misunderstood, I was only referring to your comment about Miyahara being "okay for her age." The rest of my post was not directed at you.

[pinky166]

What about Alexandra Najarro? Kate Charbonneau? What about Juulia Turkkila? She competed at the SENIOR Worlds last season! According to Maofan's logic, what the hell is she still doing on the JGP? I don't see anyone bitching about anybody but Cesario.

ITA but out of fairness to Turkkila she is only 16. And I don't have a problem with Cesario competing on the JGP, do I think she could hold her own and maybe look more in place at SA or a senior B? Sure, but that doesn't mean she "doesn't belong" or is "out of place" on the JGP, far from it. I do think she maybe should have beat Miyahara here though.

[Pulaski73]

After watching the top 5, I got to say that I am SOOOO impressed with Cesario. I actually think she deserved the silver after that freeskate and an exceptional short.