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  1. #781

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    Here in the northeast part of the US when I was growing up this was called "trash talking" the competition and it still is. This is part of so many sports and it's part of figure skating too.

    Trash talking boosts up the confidence of the trash talking team (or country or federation or students or whatever group you're speaking for); the trash talker tries to put the competition in a bad light and put his/her group in a good light. Mostly, it's a 'we're puffing ourselves up, especially when we're losing' strategy and that's what it is here.

    Lots of hot air to demonstrate that no one intends to just give up the podium to the current champions. Okay - you're still trying, we get it. Doesn't mean much in substance and if they could do better than D/W or V/M then they'd speak with their skates -but they can't, at least not at this point, so we get the words.

    Nothing new here - same old trash talking, nothing more.

    My preference - don't say it, skate it.
    Last edited by Willowway; 12-12-2011 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #782

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    I agree on Starygina/Volobuev. They are good, and he especially is fantastic.

    As to the other things you mentioned, the answer is simple: Politiks!
    G/B are coached by Tchaikovskaya, hence the politikal "power". S/V are with Svinin/Zhuk who barely have any influence on politiks.
    Simple as that.
    You are right - and that is what makes me so sometimes. They dont back their most talented skaters - they back whichever coaches have the right "pull" - regardless of talent.

    I wish Svin/Zhuk would re-locate somewhere else - either Europe or N Amer. California doesnt have a center for ice dance [I think] . 10 years from now the Russian Fed will be moaning their move and begging them to come back. They complain about all the good coaches who have left - but they dont support the talent they still have.

    It's very frustrating. I'd love to see Star/Vol make the Euros team - but I dont think they will, no matter how they skate.

  3. #783

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    The annoying 0.18 Vaitsekhovskaya talks to Volosozhar/Trankov and Smirnov after the GPF LP
    Two Russian pairs finished the GPF on the podium. The 2010 European champions Kawaguti/Smirnov took bronze and the 2011 World vice champions Volosozhar/Trankov tood silver, loosing the 3 times World champions Savchenko/Szelkowy just 0.18 points.

    The advantage of the German pair for a clean skate performed by both pairs was never so shaky. When Volosozhar/Trankov received a standing ovation after their skate it seemed the Russian won - just like they did in the SP. But no.

    When the margine is so little you start looking for the errors to make sure fixing them in the future. Maksim Trankov answered that after the skate:
    MT: We made some mistakes, end of the story. If we want to beat the 3 times world champions we have to show a flawless skate. And get positive GOE for every element.

    TV: I landed the second throw jump on two feet - quietly admitted Tanya
    MT: The SBS jumps we could have done sharper, - added Maksim. Perhaps this is what caused the .18 margine. Sometimes I don't understand why do we loose points. It makes no sense. for example we received level 3 for the death spiral in both of our programmes. I don't get it how this element can be of a 3rd level at all. Either it's the 4th, when all is done well or it's the 2nd when the last revolution is not completed. The downgrade goes for the underotation and the arm change at the same time.

    EV: You can ask the specialist who decides on the levels/
    MT: And we do all the time. But I still don't get it. Lets take another example: we did our combination spin flawlessly in the SP. We watched it in the slow motion and made sure. Received level 1. In the LP we didn't hold the last position till the end, didn't complete the number of turns after the last legs change. And received level4. How on earth do you explain that? I'm quite lost.

    EV: When the programme was over you looked happy.
    MT: I don't know where such impression came from. Satisfied -yes. The season have been hard so far. We had too many injuries and didn't train as we planned. For example the last time I performed the parallel spins before the GPF was in Paris GP. When taking the ice I had no clue how will it work and what to expect.
    TV: Because we lacked in training we had to concentrate to the maximum and put a lot of effort on the simplest elements. It is very demanding.

    EV: Then you should be even more satisfied with the result then, right?
    MT: Have we lost 5 points I would be. But those 0.18... It's a shame. Especially when realizing it was up to you.
    TV: On the other hand competing now is really itneresting, smiles Tanya. I think the situation in the pairs is just like in the ice dance, where 2 pairs are competing and it's hard to predict who will win.

    EV: When did you start suffering from the injuries?
    MT: I can't really tell. It started at the summer when we came back from Japan where we participated a show. We didn't overdo it, didn't put too much pressure, but I fell in one of the rtainings. In St. Petersburg I had a specialist who used to sharpen and fix my blades. I don't have such a person in Moscow. Nikolai Morozov who mends our blades was not around at the moment. The blades were not sharp, and I was too excited about the training, did a move, the blade just flew away from underneath me. I hurt the shoulder quite badly.
    Hence we had to stop working on the lifts. We had big plans there - wanted to be able to perform 7-8 different lifts so we could choose and not reveal before the main competition. Otherwise there are always pairs that copy the ideas.
    Giving up the lifts we concentrated on other elements and putting stress on other muscles and I got a pain in the groin. In Bratislava I had a bad fall and partly tore the groin tendon. When such thing happens the treatment is to rest, go through various procedures and wait for the things to mend. But how could I lay down if the season began and we had a competition every 2 weeks? After each competition we needed at least a week to recover a bit.

    EV: You could have given up the GP events.
    MT: We could, but didn't want to. Now we are upset we have to give up the Russian nationals. We had a very exact plan when and what should we do till the Olympics. We are trying to work according to that plan.

    EV: Mentally is this season easier than the previous?
    MT: Because of the injuries we don't even think about it. We were busy just to make all the elements and not to tear ourselves in the proccess. We didn't have a chance to enjoy the skate even once. It's a fight every time. A fight against the pain. But we'll get better.

    The bronze taken by Kawaguti/Smirnov could hardly be called a success. Yuko left the mixed zone right after the skate leaving Alexandr, who, it was obvious, didn't really want to comment on the GPF

    AS: We looked far better in the practices. Though I felt the same on the practices and the competition

    EV: What happened in the SP?
    AS: Not being ready enough showed. It's my fault. I was slightly injuried in my leg after the Moscow GP and we hardly trained after. This is why Yuko made the mistakes. The girls skate with their `heads' while we, guys, trust the muscle memory. It's easier for us.

    EV: I don't remember you ever being in the 2nd group. Was it very weird?
    AS: We were in the same situation in GP in Japan when we became 5th in the SP. It's unusual. After all we are more experienced then the other 2 pairs so we did everything we planned in the 20 minutes. The rest of the time we were just bothering them. Of course it's an annoying thing to know being in the 2nd group you are out of medals to begin with. Concolusion: don't make mistakes in the SP. It's possible. We have a good coach, a good relationship, we just need time. Fortunately there is enough time till the Olympics.

    EV: I can't get rid of an impression that after Yuko injuried her shoulder in Japan she is very tense again in her skating. As if she is constantly concentrates on not getting injuried again.
    AS: I don't think so. Yuko is stressed because she is not confident. I explained before why she lacks confidence.
    Last edited by TAHbKA; 12-13-2011 at 09:30 AM.

  4. #784
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    Many thanks, TAHbKA!

    I usually think of muscle memory as being tied to practice and repetition, but Smirnov seems to be saying that for him, he believes in the muscle memory from practicing it before the injury, where as Kavaguti needs more recent practice to feel confident.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #785
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    MT: The SBS jumps we could have done sharper, - added Maksim. Perhaps this is what caused the .18 margine. Sometimes I don't understand why do we loose points. It makes no sense. for example we received level 3 for the death spiral in both of our programmes. I don't get it how this element can be of a 3rd level at all. Either it's the 4th, when all is done well or it's the 2nd when the last revolution is not completed. The downgrade goes for the underotation and the arm change at the same time.

    EV: You can ask the specialist who decides on the levels/
    MT: And we do all the time. But I still don't get it. Lets take another example: we did our combination spin flawlessly in the SP. We watched it in the slow motion and made sure. Received level 1. In the LP we didn't hold the last position till the end, didn't complete the number of turns after the last legs change. And received level4. How on earth do you explain that? I'm quite lost.
    This is awesome, cause he's not exactly wuzrobbing, just pointing out the inconsistencies.

    Can anyone with CoP expertise comment on those calls?

  6. #786

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    I wondered about the combination spin the LP for V/T too. It looked like they barely completed one revolution in the last position.

  7. #787
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    http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/498350

    Is this the same article as the one TAHbKA just translated? (Thank you TAHbKA for the translation btw!) If not, can someone please translate or summarize?

  8. #788

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari Lepisto View Post
    http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/498350

    Is this the same article as the one TAHbKA just translated? (Thank you TAHbKA for the translation btw!) If not, can someone please translate or summarize?
    No, it's an interview with Tarasova. Will translate later.

  9. #789

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    Wow, very gentlemanlike for Smirnov to blame only himself for the mistakes.

  10. #790

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    Thank you for the translation and very much looking forward to read what TT has to say!

  11. #791

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    After the GPF the photofraph of Tatiana Volosozhar smilling and Maksim Trankov holding his head when they lost the 3 times world champions Savchenko/Szelkowy by just 0.18 points was all over the internet.

    Q: Such mixed feelings! Hardly surprising though. I wonder what were you feeling, Tatiana Anatol'evna?
    A: Why do you think Trankov's holding his head necessarily means something bad? I'm quite sure Maksim was happy. And so was Tanya. And so was I.

    Q: But - 0.18!
    A: I can't see a cause for drama here. Volosozhar/Trankov lost the LP. On a Salchow Tanya touched the ice with her free leg. Nevertheless it was a strong skate. Have some patient -wait and see the giants fight.

    Q: Nevertheless the miles margine Savchenko/Szelkowy used to have became a couple of sm. How objective is it?
    A: It is still bound to change. Alena Savchenko is always ahead of everyone. She is following a new route and it's not an easy one. I can't talk well just of our skaters and diminish the accomplishments of the others. It's unacceptable. Alyona is a genius of pairs skating. The pair Volosozhar/Trankov is capable to fight the genius. Talented guys who are just made for each other and pairs skating. In just a short period of time they made a huge step forward. Two gifted people became partners and I give the full credit to their coach Nina Mozer.

    Q: Does she work alone or asks for your help?
    A: Nina doesn't need any help. She is a figure skating person, with her own mind. She is her mother's daughter, who was a great pairs skating coach herself. The coach wins with their brains. I was impressed with the functional indipendance of Volosozhar/Trankov. The indipendance from the difficult elements. It is Nina Mihailovna's doing. She has a team who help her. Stas Morozov. Nikolai Morozov who choreographes. But Nina is the brains behind it.

    Q: Tamara Moskvina said Kawaguti/Smirnov became a pair in every sense of the word just now. They have been skating together for 5 years now...
    A: I feel the same.

    Q: It's Volosozhar/Trankov's 2nd season. Are they a pair or not yet?
    A: They are almost a pair. They already breath together. Its' visible. Not just make the elements, but fill the space in which they work. It's where all that energy flows from.

    Q: What stands behind the `almost'?
    A: They don't actually lack anything. Most importantly is that they stay healthy.

    Q: Was it visible for you they skated through pain? They are both injuried. Maksim told in one of the TV programmes that he doesnt' practice any jumps and does them on competitions only. On Sunday it was announced they would skip the Russian nationals. How bad is it?
    A: You should ask their doctoc. I cant' see they are skating through pain. It shouldn't be visible. Not if they are real athletes and artists. Whcih they are. Hence you'll never see their pain.

    Q: You used to talk about Maksim's difficult behaviour...
    A: Never. I know him for quite a long time and think he is great.

    Q: Nevertheless, he changed so much with Volosozhar. As if he is flying. She must be a smart woman, to realize one can perform a miracle if understood and supported.
    A: Of course, there should be patience. Understanding the partners should match in everything and thats the condition for the real work. If someone can't match or doesnt' want to - nothing will work out.

    Q: What is more important - patience or talent?
    A: I dont' think it shoudl be separated. I don't want to mention any names, but we have a pair in the team who are talented enough, but not patient enough. It's a shame.

    Q: Leonova's 3rd place is yet another GPF surprise. What did Nikolai Morozov change in such a short period of time?
    A: Alyona reached a time when she wanted to change herself. She is ready and wants to work hard. She is past the puberty. She finally can accept the working process as is offered by Morozov. She likes the lively athmosphere on the ice. Her gliding changed completely..but she was developing in that direction.

    Q: The shrink's work must have contributed? Who else in the team should be working with a psychologist?
    A: Everyone.

    Q: No matter what are the results?
    A: A psychologist is a person who helps to understand yourself. We all have nervious breakdowns. It's inevitablе when working for many years under pressure. This is why such a specialist should be part of the team. Not all the time perhaps, but in a periods when things are shaky and the coach can't really tell what is the matter. You shoudl be able to tell the psychologics everything, sometimes much mroe than the coach. But you also have to be sure the shrink will not tell your secrets. That would be a betrail. Kind of like a confession.

    Q: Can we even dream of winning the ice dance event till Virtue/Moir and Davis/White retire?
    A: You can dream of anything. I dream to have a theatre, but it doesn't mean I'll have one. I dream to have a `Ferrari' and drive in Italy at the age of 65 as if I were 18. Right now the gap between Virtue/Moir, Davis/Whtie and the rest of the world increases. I can't see anyone competing with them in the next Olympics. Unless something extraordinary happens. Like Volosozhar/Trankov in the pairs.

  12. #792

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post

    Q: The shrink's work must have contributed? Who else in the team should be working with a psychologist?
    A: Everyone.

    Q: No matter what are the results?
    A: A psychologist is a person who helps to understand yourself. We all have nervious breakdowns. It's inevitablе when working for many years under pressure. This is why such a specialist should be part of the team. Not all the time perhaps, but in a periods when things are shaky and the coach can't really tell what is the matter. You shoudl be able to tell the psychologics everything, sometimes much mroe than the coach. But you also have to be sure the shrink will not tell your secrets. That would be a betrail. Kind of like a confession.

    Q: Can we even dream of winning the ice dance event till Virtue/Moir and Davis/White retire?
    A: You can dream of anything. I dream to have a theatre, but it doesn't mean I'll have one. I dream to have a `Ferrari' and drive in Italy at the age of 65 as if I were 18.
    She has very wise opinions of the psychologist´s work even though the one whom Yagudin used seems to be scary.

    I would love too see TAT driving her red Ferrari in Italy. I´d rather not would be on the way, though

    Kudos for her!

  13. #793

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    Some interesting comments and no trash talk from TAT - good for her. Thanks for the translation so much.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    Q: What is more important - patience or talent?
    A: I dont' think it shoudl be separated. I don't want to mention any names, but we have a pair in the team who are talented enough, but not patient enough. It's a shame.
    Thanks for the translation!!!

    I wonder who she's referring to? hehe.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari Lepisto View Post
    Thanks for the translation!!!

    I wonder who she's referring to? hehe.
    I/M?

  16. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    I/M?
    That's what I thought at first.. but then I think if they're not patient, they would have split long time ago after all these sub-par results on the senior circuit so i'm not sure anymore..

  17. #797

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari Lepisto View Post
    Thanks for the translation!!!

    I wonder who she's referring to? hehe.
    I thought of B&L when I read that.

  18. #798

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    Are there two teams that could break up and members create a super team that can challenge for the top in dance? But even if that happened can that team really get 9's and 10's in PCS right away like VM and DW do? Doubt it. Not even a V/T could happen in dance.

  19. #799

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    The `pair' in Russian is just a pair, so it might apply toa dance couple as well as a pairs couple.

  20. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I thought of B&L when I read that.
    That is who I though of first or she could mean G/E.

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