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  1. #1

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    Jackie Kennedy Special on ABC

    Is anyone watching? These are the tapes she made that were not supposed to be released until after her death.

    Wow. She didn't like the Eisenhowers or Nixons. And she admitted to using speed!

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    She had a distinctive voice.

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    Can't say I appreciate her comments about MLK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Can't say I appreciate her comments about MLK.
    I missed it. What did she say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Can't say I appreciate her comments about MLK.
    Neither can I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn226 View Post
    I missed it. What did she say?
    The word I heard was "tricky".


    I wonder about the account of the tour of the White House given Jackie Kennedy just a few days after the Caesarean delivery of her son, in which the promised wheelchair was nowhere in sight and she was never offered a chance to sit down. Was that petty malice on Mamie Eisenhower's part, or just a pretty lamentable oversight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post


    I wonder about the account of the tour of the White House given Jackie Kennedy just a few days after the Caesarean delivery of her son, in which the promised wheelchair was nowhere in sight and she was never offered a chance to sit down. Was that petty malice on Mamie Eisenhower's part, or just a pretty lamentable oversight?
    She seemed to think it was the former.
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    Not watching the show, but newspapers today were reporting she also called MLK "a phony" and "terrible."

    Was there anybody she actually DID like, aside from her husband and children?
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Neither can I.

    The word I heard was "tricky".
    I thought so...I was making dinner and I thought she said "creepy", but "tricky" sounds more like it.
    I wonder about the account of the tour of the White House given Jackie Kennedy just a few days after the Caesarean delivery of her son, in which the promised wheelchair was nowhere in sight and she was never offered a chance to sit down. Was that petty malice on Mamie Eisenhower's part, or just a pretty lamentable oversight?
    I wonder too....Mamie may have been stressed about leaving.

    I admire Jackie, but she was no saint. She was elitist and greedy.

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    "I wouldn't be surprised if they [women like Clare Boothe Luce, who were, in the Kennedys' view, over-concerned with power] were lesbians."

    Charming...charming.

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    ^^I know, right?
    She sounds like an enabler.

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    I have to agree with Caroline that a lot of what she said had to do with the era, and that as her mother aged, she became much more liberal, supportive of women. I recently read "Jackie as Editor" by Greg Lawrence and "Reading Jackie" by William Kuhn and she comes off much more intellectual and human in these than in these tapes from the 60s.

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    I was watching: Did I hear correctly that she said she loathed the French? I about fell off of my chair. I always believed the opposite.

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    I wasn't going to watch this but now I am wildly curious. Is this going to air again or be available online?

    This sounds terrible, but I wouldn't want videos of me saying so many questionable things about people out in the universe. I'd pray everyday that no one found them 100 years after I died based on what I'm reading here.
    Last edited by FiveRinger; 09-14-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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    I watched just part of this. Maybe it's just because they took a very small percdentage of the tapes to play on tv, but the impression the show seemed to give was that she was quite catty and crititical, though I suppose she wasn't in the best of moods at the time she did the tapes, not that long after JFK's death. I respect Caroline for releasing the tapes in their entirety because it must have been tempting to sanitize them. I'm sure some things are going to be taken out of context or simply don't include all the context. I may end up reading the book. That clip they played about MLK was only about two seconds long and I ended up wondering what it was about MLK that she found tricky. Politically tricky? Personally tricky? Was there a particular incident JFK (or RFK) had with him?

    Also, the part that I saw, she seemed to be saying that she liked the French and the French loved her. But, a lot of Americans didn't seem to like the fact that she spoke French and other languages. But, maybe I missed the part where she said she loathed the French. Or maybe that was just a reference to De Gaulle.

    ETA: Some of the articles on the tapes provide a little more context to the comment about MLK:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14909983

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...-with-you.html

    Caroline thinks it was Hoover who was feeding Jacqueline negative information about MLK. She had been told that he was insulting and drunk at JFK's funeral and that he was arranging an orgy on the eve of the Freedom March. Given the later rumors about JFK's philandering, it's kind of ironic that she didn't like MLK's alleged philandering, though I guess it's a bit different for a minister.
    Last edited by Allskate; 09-14-2011 at 07:53 AM.

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    While I'm sure MLK was no saint, Hoover DID get very weird about him. And in fairness Jackie was not always the brightest bulb.

    But really, I find this all much more believable than the hypersanitized St. Jackie the Kennedy machine created. I can hardly blame her for the speed, though, they had some doctors who, well, typical for the period, treated EVERYTHING with drugs. Even the Manchester book, which, Kennedy complaints aside (some people are never happy) was COMPLETE whitewash propaganda, mentioned an awful lot of needles for stress, to sleep, to wake up. Obviously right after the shooting that's one thing but no one seemed to think it was odd or OTT.

    I've heard the Mamie Eisenhower/wheelchair story. The White House (eg Eisenhower) response is that it was waiting out of sight, but Jackie never asked for it. So it was more likely a case of Mamie didn't think is was polite to overtly offer, Jackie didn't think it was polite to ask. As for the Nixons, Jackie was a snob so I can see her disliking them, but it's funny as contrary to modern myth JFK and Richard Nixon didn't hate each other and were on good terms before 1960 and cordial ones after. They'd been in Congress together and weren't violent enemies. If anything they probably got on better than JFK and LBJ, who was bitter a long time about losing the nomination and who really just was a completely alien personality to type to JFK. They did NOT 'get' each other at all.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cachoo View Post
    I was watching: Did I hear correctly that she said she loathed the French? I about fell off of my chair. I always believed the opposite.
    I was surprised, as well. I think she said something like 'they' always put or think of themselves first.

    My understanding was President Kennedy could get impatient with her regarding "everything" needing to be French (furnishings, foods, etc.)

    I was also surprised about the quality and tone of her voice. Did she adapt a bit of the Kennedy accent?

    I believed Caroline when she said her mother's attitude changed toward a number of things as she grew older and times changed. Caroline appeared to be amused at times, like she was surprised her mother had said those things.

    Fascinating show.
    Last edited by soxxy; 09-14-2011 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    Caroline thinks it was Hoover who was feeding Jacqueline negative information about MLK. She had been told that he was insulting and drunk at JFK's funeral and that he was arranging an orgy on the eve of the Freedom March.
    I've heard that about Hoover too. That would explain a lot -- though she must have been pretty gullible!

    Given the later rumors about JFK's philandering, it's kind of ironic that she didn't like MLK's alleged philandering, though I guess it's a bit different for a minister.
    EVERYTHING is okay when a Kennedy does it. Funny how her husband the philanderer was a hero, while MLK the alleged philanderer was a phony.

    I know, I like to rag on the Kennedys a lot, but that attitude that they were just a little bit better than the common herd (which is still rather widespread in some quarters) is pretty hilarious, especially when their behavior could be so awful. And it sounds like Jackie had that attitude in spades.
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  19. #19

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    Jackie was a woman of her time, place, class and position.
    Like many woman, she had a idealized view of love and marriage and was expected to "turn a blind eye" to her husband's "dalliances"; as long as they did not become "public".

    I believed Caroline when she said her mother's attitude changed toward a number of things as she grew older and times changed.
    Indeed, to her credit, she adapted; and became a role model for many women.

    I'm looking forward to reading the book; and finding out more about the tapes "in context"

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Jackie was a woman of her time, place, class and position.
    ITA. It's easy for people with 2011 sensibilities and PC to criticize what Jackie said on the tape, but you have to remember that it was in the 60s, women were expected only to be a wife and a mother, and Jackie probably lived in a coccoon during the White House years where her world was what fed to her by her hustand and his staff.

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