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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I saw part of a show on CNN about some of the people who are mentioned in the footnotes to the 9/11 commission report. I felt so awful for poor customer service reps who checked in the terrorists -- one of them was asked to review the passenger lists and when he saw the names of 2 of the terrorists, he remembered them and said "I did this." Of course, he didn't, and he knows he didn't, but he can't stop thinking about it. Another now has hallucinations of Mohammed Atta -- he checked him in. He sees him in stores, driving back and forth in front of his house. He said he didn't even believe in hallucinations until he started having them. One of them can't stand beautiful blue skies because every time he sees one, he thinks of it being 9/11 blue.

    Another flight traffic controller was interviewed -- he started sending messages to all the flights in the air, asking them if they needed assistance. If they responded, he told the pilot to beware of cockpit intrusion. One of the flights he reached was U93. The pilot didn't understand the warning and asked for confirmation. The controller was warning multiple flights and by then it was too late. The controller's life has never been the same -- he started grounding flights for no reason and finally retired on disability. He and his wife live on a sailboat and he broke up many times during the interview. He said he was trying to warn everyone as quickly as possible.
    That's so sad that they still suffer with guilt and remorse. I certainly don't blame them for what happened and I hope no one else does. Maybe they'll be able to forgive themselves.

    I am a card-carrying crybaby at wakes and funerals - no joke: if your nasty neighbor dies and has no one to mourn him, invite me and you'll have a crying section. I wear my heart on my sleeve.

    I was the President of my dd's school's Parents Guild at the time of 9/11 and part of my role was to represent the school at these types of events. During my four years in office, I went to a few parents' funerals (incredibly sad-cancer) and some grandparents (not so bad), but it was just a handful of people and I was able to keep it somewhat together. (Although two of the parents who died broke my heart - they were personal friends from swim team I coached.)

    Within three months of 9/11, I had attended 3 dozen victims' wakes and funerals for the school, along with quite a few memorial services - over 1,000 families in total on 9/11 were without closure since no remains were found for thier loved ones. I was shell-shocked by the last few and that numbness still lasts today. I had never known what it felt like to be stoic until that time, but I knew I had to suck it up and be strong because those people were hurting, especially at the memorials.

    My youngest DD, who was 3 at the time, wrote a beautiful essay this weekend on why we all have to work together to overcome the evil that became 9/11. It was very sweet, if a bit naive, but from the heart. I'm sure she'll get a good grade.

  2. #82
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    I love the waterfall--it symbolizes so much and the names are not microscopic. I love that they used technology so the names will not be too hot to the touch in summer or too cold to the touch in winter.
    I am home today and my friend told me to watch a documentary called "Rebirth" on Showtime. If you have Showtime (or Netflix) it is certainly worth watching as it follows several people who were at the WTC or have a family/friend connection to it. The process of watching these people slowly recover from injury, from grief, from survivor's guilt---so many different experiences---is wrenching but ultimately hopeful.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    FYI: the NY TImes has an amazing interactive site of the 9/11 tapes between all the airtraffic controllers.
    Thank you for this. I was a 911 dispatcher and once during a multi-alarm fire we did a PAR (a rollcall) and I could not find one of the firemen. I felt so much dread and fear that I had "lost" him but blessedly it turned out that his radio had malfunctioned. He was fine. I think about those 911 dispatchers on 9/11 doing PARs: "Ladder 32", "Engine 11" and so on and getting no response at all. You don't even know what they look like but after you have been there awhile there is this bond...you are looking out for them in a small way and I can't imagine what the dispatchers were going through. Or I can but the scale is what I can't get my head around. I hope the dispatchers are okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    FYI: the NY TImes has an amazing interactive site of the 9/11 tapes between all the airtraffic controllers.
    On the first anniversary of 9/11, USA Today had a really interesting two-part feature on the events from the perspective of flight controllers, pilots and other airline workers. Part one is here and part two here.

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    I didn't know until the school carpool didn't arrive, and I called to find out why.

    Mr. Barbk was at work at a tech startup, where they grabbed a tv used for training videos and set it up. Meanwhile, an all company meeting by speakerphone was scheduled for 10 am our time -- led by the company's founder on Long Island. The meeting went ahead, and the founder told everyone that the company was being shut down that day. Nobody seemed to care, given what else was happening. I still can't imagine how a doctor at a hospital on LI could go ahead and complete a shutdown right then. His ability to compartmentalize must have been astounding.

    The project manager had been in NY for meetings with him, and ended up renting a car and driving back across the country.

    UMBS -- I'm very glad you were so lucky that day. My cousin was a NYPD officer, and his brother a NYFD firefighter, and we didn't know for more than a day that both survived when so many from the Rockaways died.

  6. #86

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    I saw one of these women on the news. She has a book out. She was very badly burned and has had a lot of surgeries, but her outlook on life is quite remarkable.
    Rob, her name is Lauren Manning:
    http://www.amazon.com/Unmeasured-Str.../dp/0805094636

    Piers Morgan's interview was very good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Do you know why? I think it's exactly right and deeply moving. That waterfall with the water streaming deep inside is like the gigantic hole in the heart of the nation and the survivors. It's a powerful representation of grief and absence, a negative space. I can't imagine anything better.
    I agree, it is exactly right. I can only imagine that possibly the representation of grief might be what bothers some. Maybe they would rather have seen a soaring memorial representing strength and rising above despair? Maybe they think it's too simple? Maybe they think it should be seen from a greater distance? I don't know the answer, just "maybe" thoughts.

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    One thing I'll always remember is what a beautiful day September 11, 2001 was where I was living at the time. It was clear and sunny with temperatures in the 70s and low humidity. It was a Tuesday and we were in the third week of fall semester at my former university. I attended a Reference Department meeting that morning from 9-11. Afterwards, I went downstairs to Media Resources to ask a colleague about a DVD one of my professors wanted. They had the TV on and were watching CNN. That's when I found out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Do you know why? I think it's exactly right and deeply moving. That waterfall with the water streaming deep inside is like the gigantic hole in the heart of the nation and the survivors. It's a powerful representation of grief and absence, a negative space. I can't imagine anything better.
    Some of them feel the area is a graveyard, that the still-unidentified remains should be interred and nothing built there to attract "tourists and gawkers." I dunno - to me, the memorial will be like the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington, VA. I've gone there to pray for their souls and their families, even though my family isn't linked to any. That's sort of their objection: a few of the more-vocal objectors don't want anyone to be able to visit the memorial except relatives and friends, treating it as a mausoleum. I don't think they understand how many people KNEW someone who died in the WTC, but hadn't lost anyone close, and would want to pay their respects at that site.

    Some have also expressed disgust that the City or others will somehow make money from the memorial, by selling admission tickets. Still, that would cover the costs of upkeep, long-term, after a few generations. (Just being honest) The one compelling objection I heard was street vendors hawking "WTC Memorial" t-shirts and trinkets - making money from death. That one's a legit complaint, imo. NYC has enough tackiness without that trash.

    Another complaint that's been expressed over and over is that the planned memorial doesn't use the materials that were carted to SI's Great Kills landfill. The pile was sifted through (my BFF's dad was there for months) and any remains that were found, but not identified, are now in a holding chapel in Manhattan. Those remains are supposed to be interred in the memorial, seven stories underground, but the remaining "pile" at Great Kills will become a park. Many survivors feel that their loved ones' cremated remains are part of that material, so it should be brought back to the site and interred as well. It's a huge pile, even with the searchers removing remains and salvaging things for memorials around the world. The survivors equate it to "throwing their loved ones out with the trash." I can see both sides of that argument.

    It's very emotional and there are a lot of different viewpoints. I don't know that the objectors can, or are willing to, find a compromise. I think regardless of what the powers that be do, there will always be objections and disagreement, some of it is just coming out of raw pain and mourning.
    Last edited by FigureSpins; 09-12-2011 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #90

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    There will never be a "memorial" that will satisfy everyone.
    Given that, I believe that they have done a magnificent job; honoring the lost, while moving forward with the construction of the new tower.

  11. #91
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    ITA - the photos I've seen are beautiful.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    Some have also expressed disgust that the City or others will somehow make money from the memorial, through admission. Still, that would cover the costs of upkeep, long-term, after a few generations. (Just being honest) The one compelling objection I heard was street vendors hawking "WTC Memorial" t-shirts and making money. That one's a legit complaint, imo. NYC has enough tackiness without that trash.
    I agree that this is a legitimate issue. Though I doubt it will be the city making money from "souvenir" sales. It will be individuals. It reminds me of what happened in Maui, just after the earth quake in Japan. It was feared that Hawaii would be hit hard by tidal waves. Many people in beach front hotels were evacuated to higher floors or other buildings. We were evacuated to the lobby, which was on the 5th floor at 1:00am, until 7:30am. Fortunately, Hawaii was spared. The day after, I saw tourists walking around with t-shirts saying "I survived the Tsunami". It made me ill. All these people "survived' was some inconvenience and maybe a little loss of sleep. Thousands of people died in Japan, countless were injured and/or lost everything. How could some callous person make money off of such crude t-shirts? And How could others buy and wear them?

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    I thought that was common knowledge: there are no "NYC-owned/operated" street vendors. They're weasles. If people didn't buy their crap, they'd be out of business. Entrepeneurs, my *** - they're con artists.

    Street vendors are supposed to have valid vending licenses, but most of the shady characters don't pay. That's why, when the cops come walking down, they fold up shop and run. They would be the ones selling the trinkets and crap.

    However, the future 9/11 Museum might have a gift shop or a refreshment stand. Those revenues might go to the City's coffers, depending on ownership/operation. I would expect that to be have less-tacky merchandise: memorial cards, bracelets, "before" postcards, etc. They'd be walking on egg shells in selecting things, though.

    On my former employer's memorial website, I was touched to see how many people posted things like "I've never been to NYC and I never met (victim), but I received their name on a card/bracelet/etc. at a charity benefit. I wanted express my sorrow and sympathy for your loss. I will think/pray for you all." Very sweet and touching.

  14. #94
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    It was a holiday in Switzerland and I went to the cinema with my mother. The film was Along Came a Spider. When I got home, at around 11 am NY time, I had a text from my best friend back then, saying that the US has been attacked. I turned on the telly and just could not believe it. Because both towers had collapsed already at that time, the pictures that I got to see was of what had already happened. It felt like a dream...a very bad one... I watched till early in the morning over and over again and it did not sink in.

    I was at the WTC just two months before, down at the mall. And I went back to NYC just a month after. I went to Ground Zero. I can still smell the burned buildings now.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    I thought that was common knowledge: there are no "NYC-owned/operated" street vendors. They're weasles. If people didn't buy their crap, they'd be out of business. Entrepeneurs, my *** - they're con artists.
    I think it's common knowledge for people who know the city, but not necessarily for those who don't.

    However, the future 9/11 Museum might have a gift shop or a refreshment stand. Those revenues might go to the City's coffers, depending on ownership/operation. I would expect that to be have less-tacky merchandise: memorial cards, bracelets, "before" postcards, etc. They'd be walking on egg shells in selecting things, though.
    They could sell books written about what happened and terrorism in general. I have been to other memorial sites where that was done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    On my former employer's memorial website, I was touched to see how many people posted things like "I've never been to NYC and I never met (victim), but I received their name on a card/bracelet/etc. at a charity benefit. I wanted express my sorrow and sympathy for your loss. I will think/pray for you all." Very sweet and touching.
    Reminds me of the Holocaust museum in DC, where you are given a card with a person's name on it, and you find out if they lived or died at the end of the tour.

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    Fortunately for us, we were not directly involved in 9/11. Oldest daughter called me after first building was hit, she was six states away from me, and together over the phone we watched 2nd one be hit and both towers fall. It was good to have someone with whom to watch.

    Later on, we realized that the building where my DH worked in Phila was the tallest in town, so we phoned to urge him to leave and come home, which he did.

    Youngest DD was in HS about a half mile away. I walked down, am glad I did because she was freaking out about her dad not being safe in the tallest building in town, and I was able to reassure her.

    The film by the two french film makers (supposed to be about a FF Rookie) was excellent:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312318/

    They really were in the right place at the right time if you wanted an inside story, including just happening to have a camera on the first building exactly as it was hit, since they were racing down there to answer a false alarm about a gassy smell just before everything started to happen that day. They showed a repeat of it last night (from 5 years ago), including the first recorded death who was an Irish Catholic Father who presumably was hit just outside one tower. They have added another tragic hour about how several of them (firefighters, maybe Engine 1?) who miraculously all made it through that 9/11 day have gotten very sick with respiratory and cancer problems within the last several months, years, some have died. They really need to pursue this, have finally gotten medical coverage for lungs, but not for cancer, and this will expire soon, after all their trouble to get coverage. The air quality was really not safe, despite many many saying, oh, everything's fine, including the female head of the EPA (former governor of NJ?). It was NOT FINE.

    My FIL was in a fire in their home where 40 year old son was killed and 3 year old grandson was slightly injured. He tried to do the rescue when he was about 70, now 91, gets pneumonia 2-3 times per year, always hospitalized, and will die of lung disease. Those poor people from 9/11 have no way to get rid of the gunk in their lungs.
    Last edited by Lacey; 09-12-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    The film by the two french film makers (supposed to be about a FF Rookie) was excellent:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312318/

    They have added another tragic hour about how several of them (firefighters, maybe Engine 1?) who miraculously all made it through that 9/11 day have gotten very sick with respiratory and cancer problems within the last several months, years, some have died. They really need to pursue this, have finally gotten medical coverage for lungs, but not for cancer, and this will expire soon, after all their trouble to get coverage. The air quality was really not safe, despite many many saying, oh, everything's fine, including the female head of the EPA (former governor of NJ?). It was NOT FINE.
    I missed seeing this rerun on CBS with the additional footage. I hope I can get it from CBS On Demand.

    I visited this firehouse several times in the days following 9/11. I had jury duty once the courts re-opened and stopped by the firehouse on my way home to talk to some of the firefighters. I learned that they had not lost anyone on 9/11 and were dealing with survivors guilt knowing that so many of their fellow firefighters perished that day. They were selling some T-Shirts from their house to raise money for the Widows & Orphans Fund and I bought as much as I could with the cash I had on me at the time. Friends far and wide asked me to go back for more shirts and whatever else the firehouse was selling and I made 4 or 5 more visits trying to fill these orders until they were asked to stop selling stuff and closed their "store". I didn't know about the film until it aired in 2002 and was stunned to see so many of the men I'd spoken to right there in the thick of the smoke and destruction.

    In the years since, I haven't been downtown much at all. I now live and work uptown. But I've often thought about these brave men and all the hours they put in working on the "pile" at Ground Zero, wondering about the impact it had on them physically and emotionally. Very sad to know they are now at the mercy of managed care insurance who are denying their claims.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    They have added another tragic hour about how several of them (firefighters, maybe Engine 1?) who miraculously all made it through that 9/11 day have gotten very sick with respiratory and cancer problems within the last several months, years, some have died. They really need to pursue this, have finally gotten medical coverage for lungs, but not for cancer, and this will expire soon, after all their trouble to get coverage. The air quality was really not safe, despite many many saying, oh, everything's fine, including the female head of the EPA (former governor of NJ?). It was NOT FINE.
    I saw that on another documentary that was shown here last night. What a disgrace and truly disgusting.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  20. #100
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    We are forever linked to this date, since it is now our anniversary.

    It brings mixed emotions for us since we were married on that day but we lost friends and know people who escaped the South Tower.

    Strange day indeed....
    Happiness is being married to your best friend!

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