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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    Tatianna Malinina was a nobody with shityyyyoddy jumps when suddenly, in 1998, someone overhauled her technique and for two seasons she had some of the best jumps to ever grace the sport. Then she returned to mediocrity. Strangest development ever IMO.
    And she had a vulnerablity on the ice that gave her an amazing almost translucence on the ice. Fabulous to watch
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  2. #22

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    Malin Hållberg-Leuf from Sweden started fully rotating her triples in her twenties. I think some of her best outings were around 2005-2007 when she was older than 25. Miriam Manzano's came back was also impressive considering she was already in her mid-twenties. Granted, neither one was a medal contender at Worlds, but very few skaters ever get to that level anyway.

    As everyone else already mentioned, setting new goals and reaching them (even if it happens later on in life) is the reason why most of us skate. Those goals don't have to involve making a World team or even getting to Nationals. One of the problems with younger skaters is making the adjustment from "I'm going to the Olympics" to 'making Nationals would be nice" since that's what will happen to most them -and a lot of times it's not due to lack of talent. Ice time, finances and the Puberty Monster can all come into play...

  3. #23
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    She wasn't really a late bloomer, but someone who I think is inspirational is Angie Lien. She competed in the 2007 Nationals at age 27. (She placed 17th...)

    Now, she obviously didn't ever reach the pinnacle of the sport, and she started young, not late, but she stuck with it, and that is pretty impressive in a sport of young girls.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    She wasn't really a late bloomer, but someone who I think is inspirational is Angie Lien. She competed in the 2007 Nationals at age 27. (She placed 17th...)

    Now, she obviously didn't ever reach the pinnacle of the sport, and she started young, not late, but she stuck with it, and that is pretty impressive in a sport of young girls.
    One of the favorite interviews I ever did (in addition to Stephanie Rosenthal's) was with Angie Lien back in 2003 : http://www.unseenskaters.com/article...127_angie.html

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    One of the favorite interviews I ever did (in addition to Stephanie Rosenthal's) was with Angie Lien back in 2003 : http://www.unseenskaters.com/article...127_angie.html
    But since you mentioned Stephanie...in your interview with her, she talks about how it took her four years to get her double axel. A great example of persistence and "late blooming"
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But since you mentioned Stephanie...in your interview with her, she talks about how it took her four years to get her double axel. A great example of persistence and "late blooming"
    And whose SP from US Nats do we still talk about to this day.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #27
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    Skating for the right reason is the key to be happy in the sport. Since it's hard to predict what will happen, it is important to focus on the motivation and the passion the skater has.
    No matter how good the skater is and will be and how far this skater can go, the most important is that the skater loves what he is doing.
    It must come from the skater, not parents, or coaches. Anyway, competitive skating is so demanding that a skater can only perform well and be happy if he likes what he is doing.

    A good indicator of "potential" is motivation and improvments. As long as the skater improves, keep it going. And as long as the skater is motivated, keep it going too !
    Apart from that, and to try to evaluate the potential of going for triple jumps (key to access to national and international level, something only a few can do), one can look at physical strenght and power. Almost everyone can do double jumps, since it is not necessary to have big height to succeed on such jumps. But for triples it is necessary to have more physical power. If the kid doesn't have it naturally, it may be harder, not impossible, but harder.
    Someone who does doubles only a few inches above the ice will probably have difficulties to rotate one more turn in the air.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    But since you mentioned Stephanie...in your interview with her, she talks about how it took her four years to get her double axel. A great example of persistence and "late blooming"
    Being able to do the double axel at 13 is not that late to me. Considering high competitive standard it may not be that early, but from a standard point of view, it's good. The fact that it took her 4 years is not that long or that bad. She started working on her double axel at 9, which means she had probably all her double jumps by 8 or 9, which is quite good.
    Most of skaters never reach the double axel level.
    It looks like she started skating at a good age for someone who could expect national or international level and she learnt quite fast, which allowed her to go to Nationals. Only a minority can do that.
    So, ok, from a champion point of view her success in jumps didn't come early, but from the point of view of the majority of skaters, her level at 13 was very good.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Malina was used back in about 2001 or 2002 on one of the ISU training videos for her technique. She really had great technique on all the jumps.

    The main thing about her I remember was she had incredibly musclely legs.
    And she had really small hips (tight hips, can we say this in english ?) that helped her to rotate.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    The fact that it took her 4 years is not that long or that bad.
    Since she brought it up, and did so to encourage other skaters who might be "stuck" on learning a jump, I would guess that she felt it was long.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Since she brought it up, and did so to encourage other skaters who might be "stuck" on learning a jump, I would guess that she felt it was long.
    Yes, for her it might have felt long. And her message is positive anyway, that is to not get discouraged if things feel hard.
    Also it is important to know that the majority of skaters will never reach her level, but even a level where the skater do doubles is still good and not easy to reach. And it's worth the effort if the skater want it. A skater doing "only" double jumps without double axel can be professional or coach. So, investment in lessons is worth it anyway, even if the skater doesn't have the talent to go to Nationals. There are lower levels that deserve efforts.

  12. #32

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    Somewhere I read Paul Wylie telling a similar story, that he got his double axel at 12 after working on it for a few years and the whole rink stopped and applauded when he landed it for the first time.

    That's the jump that more or less determines whether the skater can move on to elite competitive levels or has maxed out with intermediate/test level jump content.

    But since it often takes a few years even for skaters who do have what it takes to land it, and some triples, a lot of them end up quitting before they find out whether they can get it or not.

  13. #33

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    I'm pretty realistic about what it takes to get to Nationals - or even place well at Regionals. Or, at least, I'm trying to be realistic. And I think as skater daughter (Skater Grrrl) sees more big competitions beyond the local, she's adjusting her goals. Not that "The Olympics" isn't still a dream at times, but she's still very cognizant that that level of competition is almost like winning a lottery as much as working toward a goal, even for very talented, hard-working (and well-funded) skaters.

    I don't what her to adjust her goals to the point that she's selling herself short. But as I understand more about "what it takes" at certain levels, I can continue to have well-informed conversations on the parenting end of this.

    The double axel does seem to be the testing ground for a lot of kids who want to remain competitive beyond the occasional local competition.

    Skater Grrrl is 12, so pushing the old-age limit toward moving into Intermediate. She's improving technically with every competition, but not yet at the point of working on double axel. She's just getting double lutz consistent. We'll see what the testing ground of double axel brings. I'll send her the link to the interview with Stephanie!

    btw, here is Skater Grrrl and her double lutz when she's landing it. (Since by now I'm sure you're wondering what this kid looks like on the ice.) http://youtu.be/NZGeMlhX5l8

  14. #34

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    I think your daughter has a pretty good double lutz there.

    I also remember the Australian pairs skater Danielle Carr had trouble with a double axel too but finally got it and it was quite a good jump.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  15. #35

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    Jozet, I looked at the other clip you posted on Youtube of Skater Grrl doing an exhibition program. She looks like she really enjoys skating, which is great to see.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  16. #36
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    The Grrrl seems good looking at her double lutz. It's a hard jump and she has good height and flow. As long as she likes skating and training, it's worth some efforts.
    But things must come from her. I sometimes have a concern about parents who spread photos and videos of their kid all over the net. It appears to me that they may be too much focused on their kid's supposed potential when they should only see their kid's motivation.
    There is actually no big question to ask about a girl who likes what she does.

  17. #37

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    Thanks all! I do try to keep the videos low key. Mostly to show family.

    Also, to show her gym teachers who once gave her a low grade because they said Skater Grrrl "didn't show athletic ability appropriate for her age" because she bombed the basketball unit. I don't mind a note of "sucks at basketball" but I thought their note was a little much. I get prickly with the whole "skating is not a sport"' thing. Maybe too much so.

    She does enjoy skating, which is good. There are tough days and dealing with a preteen is tough enough. Sometimes I push a bit, other times I let her hang herself. But, I have another preteen daughter as well, and I can only take so much before the bartenders turn me away.

    Again, just want to keep "supposed potential" in check on my end. It is easy to get caught up at times, I'll admit. Luckily, my mothy pocketbook doesn't allow a peak level of mom craziness.

    We're all transitioning here as she gets older. I used to keep a tight hand on homework, music practice, sports - not because I thought I could push a prodigy, but because we were using those things to teach commitment, work = overcoming challenges, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, etc. With all things, I'm letting out the leash a bit and giving her more responsibility to choose her own level. Still figuring it out as I go along.

    Thanks again for all the comments and this discussion. Much cheaper than Sports Mom therapy.
    Last edited by Jozet; 09-16-2011 at 03:52 PM. Reason: spellng erorr

  18. #38

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    btw, I asked Skater Grrrl this morning what some of her goals are. She said, "I want to be good enough to make it on the Unseen Skater list."

    Whoot!

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozet View Post
    Also, to show her gym teachers who once gave her a low grade because they said Skater Grrrl "didn't show athletic ability appropriate for her age" because she bombed the basketball unit. I don't mind a note of "sucks at basketball" but I thought their note was a little much. I get prickly with the whole "skating is not a sport"' thing. Maybe too much so.
    I think that is really disappointing. Kids should be encouraged to do a sport of any kind. So what if it doesn't fit in with the school curriculum. Schools usually only see skating as something to do on a school trip rather than understand some might take it as a serious interest and have some ability at.

    Also I have found skating can work really well for kids who don't like any other kinds of sport or feel they are not suited to them. They can really immerse themselves in it.

    By looking at the clip I think she has reached a good standard.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #40
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    This is another proof that teachers can be very narrow minded sometimes. They tend to make general deductions and judgements based on a very little observation.
    Best thing to do : ignoring them and/or showing proves that they don't see everything right.
    When one things that these teachers can really have a big psychologic impact on kids...

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