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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Manley was 3rd going into the long program in Calgary. She could not win though unless someone beat both Witt and Thomas in the long program for her. Which nearly happened as Ito lost 2nd place in the long program to Witt on only a 6-3 split. Manley had been 4th in figures and 3rd in the short program. Witt was 3rd in figures but 1st in the short program. Thomas was 2nd in figures and 2nd in the short program, but since figures were 30% and the short only 20%, Thomas had the overall tiny lead on Witt going into the long. If Manley had been 2nd in the short program or 3rd in figures she still would have been 3rd overall, but would have been able to control her own destiny in the long program. She narrowly lost 2nd to Thomas in the short and probably would have had it if she didnt bobble on 2 different elements.

    Trenary and Kadavy had no realistic chance of a medal going into the long program. Jill was 5th in figures and 6th in the short program. Kadavy was 7th in figures and 5th in the short program. Only if Manley bombed did either have a shot at the bronze.
    Thanks for the correction. I forgot that in the CF era, it was not enough to be in the 3rd spot, in order to win.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Boitano and Thomas were both leading going into the LP despite placing 2nd in both figures and the short program. So thst must be what she meant.
    I thought Boitano was 1st in CF. I remember that his coach raved over his figures. Orser was first in the SP.

  3. #23
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    Alexander Fadeev was first in CF at Calgary.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sassybuford View Post
    Alexander Fadeev was first in CF at Calgary.

    Thanks for the correction. IIRC, Fadeev had to either withdraw from the LP or he skated poorly. Viktor Petrenko (age 18) won the bronze, for the USSR.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    Back in the days, they have easier elements and jumps. All they have to do is stay on their feet and their country politics will take care of the rest. The rules are much harder right now and every skaters are doing harder tricks. Isn't Witt win her 2nd OGM with only Toe Loop and Salcow jumps??
    Back in the day, figures counted for as much as 60% of the score. It was a different competition altogether, one that did not favor hard tricks or superior free skating. The greatest ladies jumper of all time, Midori Ito, was held back by figures, as was one of the greatest artistic skaters, Janet Lynn. Witt skated before figures were eliminated and presumably benefited from that portion of the competition.

  6. #26
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    Witt did not always benefit from figures. From 1981-1983 she was hurt a great deal by figures. She would the short program at every Worlds during that period, and won the combined short-free skating porition at the 82 and 83 Worlds so would have won gold at both without figures. From 86-88 she would have found herself in tougher against people like Ito and Manley without figures though.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post

    Dick Button 47 & 48 (or was it 48 & 49?)
    Perhaps someone's pointed this out already and I missed it, but I do believe DB won in '48 and '52 (with his first and only Euro title in between ) - thus making it all the more impressive.

    I do love me some Uncle Dickie

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by azurika View Post
    Perhaps someone's pointed this out already and I missed it, but I do believe DB won in '48 and '52 (with his first and only Euro title in between ) - thus making it all the more impressive.

    I do love me some Uncle Dickie
    You are right. Olympics are every 4 years, not every year. How did I forget that?

  9. #29
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    Nah, I don't think any of the 2010 OGM winners are going to do it. I can't see Lysacek beating Chan anymore, S/Z are gone, V/M will probably be gone although if by some miracle they do stick around, they could beat D/W for a second OGM. I think Yu-Na's lost some of her sizzle, and one of the new Russians ladies or more than one could overtake her.

  10. #30
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    Virtue & Moir have the best chance.

  11. #31
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    Of course it is really difficult, but in fact, not so many skaters tried it.

    Alexei Urmanov failed it. Mishkutienok&Dmitriev failed it. Evgeny Plushenko failed it. Viktor Petrenko. Who else ?

  12. #32

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    Valova/Vasiliev came 2nd in 1988, losing to Gordeeva/Grinkov like M/D did.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by zotza View Post
    Valova/Vasiliev came 2nd in 1988, losing to Gordeeva/Grinkov like M/D did.
    They were mentioned in the OP as those who came close.

    Interesting that both pairs lost to G&G. V&V did not skate that well in the 88 Oly, but they could not have beaten the absolutely perfect skate by G&G.

  14. #34
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    V&V had no chance against a clean G&G by 88. G&G had to make a major error like the 88 Worlds for an inspired V&V to capatilize.

  15. #35
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    Okay 1988 calgary olympics ladies.

    figures

    1. Ivanova (only footage I've seen wasn't impressive but who am I to say?)
    2. Thomas (she won the final two figures after a bumpy start, footage looks great)
    3. Witt (maybe gifted? the footage is unimpressive)
    4. Manley
    5. Trenary (pulled up after bad first figure, very nice loop figure)
    6. Leistner
    6. Kadavy (started strong but folded under pressure)
    -
    10. Ito (not bad for her at the time)


    SP

    1. Witt (not her best performance but the judges wouldn't be denied)
    2. Thomas (very good though some spins were slow)
    3. Manley (def. gifted - her combo wasn't so hard and her spins travelled too much)
    4. Ito (would win after 1990 but 3rd would be right for standards of the time)
    5. Kadavy (probably underrated but withdrew with flu before lp)
    6. Trenary
    9. Leistner (fell on a spin...)

    LP
    1. Manley (best match between jumping ambition and developed presentation)
    2. Witt (too much posing)
    3. Ito (would win by later judging standards but I'd still have her after Manley)
    4. Thomas (kind of a gift but it didn't matter overall in terms of standings)
    5. Trenary (pretty good debut overall, but the sport was headed in a different direction)
    6. Leistner (hot mess of a program but I have a soft spot for her)
    7. Konrashova (object of Peggy Fleming girl crush)

    Final standings
    1. Witt
    2. Manley
    3. Thomas
    4. Trenary
    5. Ito

  16. #36
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    I often feel sorry for Jill since it feels like she was caught in between two eras and wasnt able to totally shine in either one. Then again she did still get a World title which Kadavy who I consider an even more talented skater didnt get, so maybe I shouldnt feel too badly for her.

  17. #37
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    ^I didn't know that about Thomas winning two of the three figures. She had good edges!

    I remember in the overview that ABC did about ladies' figures in '88, that Witt had a strong first figure and maybe won that but faded, yet held onto 3d.

    Did Ivanova win any of the 3 figures?

    I think Leistner underperformed in figures. She was higher at '87 Worlds.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Of course it is really difficult, but in fact, not so many skaters tried it.

    Alexei Urmanov failed it. Mishkutienok&Dmitriev failed it. Evgeny Plushenko failed it. Viktor Petrenko. Who else ?
    And some skaters were lucky, they only had to wait two years to try again versus the normal four year wait.

  19. #39
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    Ivanova won the first figure (though in the footage below the tracings were pretty far apart) Witt was second, Kadavy third (!) and Thomas fourth.

    Here is some footage. I always enjoyed listening to Peggy Fleming rag on Witt's figures.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-yn9XYq0k

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GQwszzIeWo

  20. #40
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    Witt was so overmarked in figures. I am sure it was political. There is no way her figures were regularly better than Leistner or Trenary who she regularly beat, usually by multiple placings, in figures.

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