Anti-Lysacek revisions to COP = Lysacek doing quads?

[Sasha'sSpins]

Good for Evan. He looks well trained and ready to go.

Whats up with the thread title a little snarky huh. If you are so anti Evan why did you post the video in the first place along with your snide comments.

THIS!

People really need to get over it already. Evan won. Plushenko didn't. Move on folks.

No they weren't. Lysacek won the Olympics and worlds without one. He was right . The quad was not the defining factor at the Olympics, a complete program was.

Now he comes back and there is more incentive to do the quad. Hence, he's practicing the quad again.

Props to Evan, what a beautiful quad he was able to do.

Well put.

[Japanfan]

You're right. There wasn't much of a rivalry in Vancouver.

No there wasn't. In 2010 Chan didn't have 1 quad in the SP and 2 in the LP at the Olympics. He does now and it's doubtful whether Lysacek will be able to rival him.

Nonetheless, if Lysacek regains his level of near-flawless consistency, the pressure will be on Chan (and others) to skate clean. Consistency and working hard to achieve peak performance levels were always Lysacek's major advantage. IMO he is neither exciting nor particularly gifted in terms of either artistry or jump technique. But he has built up his strengths to a point where his weaknesses hardly matter and if he keeps that up, he'll remain a threat.

[judgejudy27]

Chan would not need to skate cleanly to beat Evan. There is nobody Chan needs to skate even close to clean right now, and Evan would not be an exception since he was never even close to the level Chan has reached in his last few events. Only if someone who actually still has capacity to improve like Kozuka improves a huge amount (and Kozuka's LP from Worlds which still gives him no hope of competing vs a semi clean Chan yet, would have even blown away Evan's from Vancouver) or Takahashi by some miracle rediscovers his 2008 4CCs form again, will Chan have any moderate margin of error to worry about. More likely it would need to be a new skater with huge talent shooting on the scene, which may not happen before 2014.

Chan is better in every department than Evan, and has gone from being quadless to having arguably the Worlds best quad. If Chan had stayed healthy he probably would have even won in Vancouver, as he certainly didnt need a quad to win against that field. His rep, PCS, content, performance level, command, have all shot up in a huge way since then though.

[NMURA]

Chan is better in every department than Evan, and has gone from being quadless to having arguably the Worlds best quad. If Chan had stayed healthy he probably would have even won in Vancouver, as he certainly didnt need a quad to win against that field. His rep, PCS, content, performance level, command, have all shot up in a huge way since then though.

Overstatement. Chan's chronic weakness is the 3A and that can't be a trivial matter. The judges are neglecting it now because he can land more quads than others. When the REAL rival stands against him with at least three (different kinds of ) quads and rock-solid 3axels, he can't get away with that. Every sport needs strong rivalry to attract fans and money. A rivalry is not something exists as it is. They are created intentionally by various reasons. In that sense, Nebelhorn Trophy is one thing to watch out.

[Japanfan]

ITA, judgejudy, that Evan is not in Chan's league.

However, ice is slippery. At Worlds, Chan landed both his quad and 3A in the SP, and was able to get away with a few mistakes in the long. Kozuka scored 180.79 to Chan's 187.96 and while that's still a solid lead for Chan, the difference is not impossible to make up.

It's possible that Chan could have a bad day and make mistakes on both money jumps in the SP. That's where Evan can make up points. His strengths allow him to capitalize on the mistakes or sub-par performances of better skaters (which was the case with Plushenko at the Olympics).

Although it remains to be seen whether Evan will regain his same level of consistency.

[museksk8r]

Exactly. Evan with or without a quad would need Chan to skate half the program on his ass to have a chance of beating him, and I am even further from a Chan fan than an Evan fan. Comparing Evan from Vancouver to Chan from the 2011 Canadians, 2011 Worlds, or even 2011 Grand Prix final is just comical to take seriously as a potential rivalry.

Totally agree! I also think Lysacek would have a really difficult time competing with the performances we saw from Kozuka in the 2010-2011 season too.

[caseyedwards]

Being obsessed with the quad and its value is one thing. But saying stupid sh*t like "2010 Olympics judges had no jump standard" is something else altogether. So the 2010 Olympic judges were just making up the point values for the jumps that were performed? Really, if your arguments had any shred of credibility left, coming out with ridiculousness like this just destroys any believability you might have ever had.

The judges didn't. If they did then Plushenko would have gotten more GOE for being the only man in the entire free skate to do a quad triple. And they wouldn't have gone nuts for GOE for an all triple program. The judges judged so horribly that massive changes to COP had to be made It's amazing that so few cared that Plushenko was the only one to do quad triples. And not just do a quad triple but 7 other successful jumps and level 3 and 4 spins and steps and choreo and a complete program. Not an all triple thing.

[museksk8r]

Overstatement. Chan's chronic weakness is the 3A and that can't be a trivial matter.

Well, if we're talking about 3Axels, I think it's easy to say that Lysacek's is even uglier than Chan's.

[ChelleC]

The judges didn't. If they did then Plushenko would have gotten more GOE for being the only man in the entire free skate to do a quad triple. And they wouldn't have gone nuts for GOE for an all triple program. The judges judged so horribly that massive changes to COP had to be made It's amazing that so few cared that Plushenko was the only one to do quad triples. And not just do a quad triple but 7 other successful jumps and level 3 and 4 spins and steps and choreo and a complete program. Not an all triple thing.

Do you even understand what GOE is? Because frankly the way Plushenko landed most of those jumps he should have gotten negative GOE.

[olympic]

A Quad should be a tie breaker when the SKATING is equal.

Of course, Chan, with his 3 Quads, trumps them all.

I hope Dornbush has started training a Quad.

I am hoping for a Dornbush VS Chan scenario.

I like Evan and wish him the best,

but Dornbush moving up to the level where he could challenge Chan would send me

[Triple Butz]

ITA, judgejudy, that Evan is not in Chan's league.

However, ice is slippery. At Worlds, Chan landed both his quad and 3A in the SP, and was able to get away with a few mistakes in the long. Kozuka scored 180.79 to Chan's 187.96 and while that's still a solid lead for Chan, the difference is not impossible to make up.

It's possible that Chan could have a bad day and make mistakes on both money jumps in the SP. That's where Evan can make up points. His strengths allow him to capitalize on the mistakes or sub-par performances of better skaters (which was the case with Plushenko at the Olympics).

Although it remains to be seen whether Evan will regain his same level of consistency.

I agree with this sentiment. Not a Lysacek fan, but he has one trait that I have to admire: He stays upright a lot more often than his competitors...

[shine]

It's funny how guys who used to defend their quadlessness so much, like Lysacek and Chan, decide to train and do quads eventually. Seems that the quad defenders were right after all.
Anyway, it's good to see them realize the importance of the jump.

Just because they thought quad wasn't EVERYTHING doesn't mean they thought it was worth NOTHING. But that's probably too much logic for you to digest today.

[Japanfan]

The judges didn't. If they did then Plushenko would have gotten more GOE for being the only man in the entire free skate to do a quad triple. And they wouldn't have gone nuts for GOE for an all triple program. The judges judged so horribly that massive changes to COP had to be made It's amazing that so few cared that Plushenko was the only one to do quad triples. And not just do a quad triple but 7 other successful jumps and level 3 and 4 spins and steps and choreo and a complete program. Not an all triple thing.

For heaven's sake!! GOE is not brownie points for landing the quad triple. It is points added or taken away for each and every element, including footwork and spins. You do understand that these points add up in contributing the total score, yes?

Plushenko's skating was scratchy and sluggish - in comparison to how he had skated in the past and in comparison to Lysacek.

[aemeraldrainc]

No there wasn't. In 2010 Chan didn't have 1 quad in the SP and 2 in the LP at the Olympics. He does now and it's doubtful whether Lysacek will be able to rival him.

Nonetheless, if Lysacek regains his level of near-flawless consistency, the pressure will be on Chan (and others) to skate clean. Consistency and working hard to achieve peak performance levels were always Lysacek's major advantage. IMO he is neither exciting nor particularly gifted in terms of either artistry or jump technique. But he has built up his strengths to a point where his weaknesses hardly matter and if he keeps that up, he'll remain a threat.

This.

[Proustable]

1. Regardless of what we feel about caseyedwards, the sum total of the changes made clearly reflect the fact that a quadless man won the Olympics and the ISU didn't want that. If you were to judge the Olympics based solely on the new TES rules, Plushenko wins.

2. No one at the Olympics was a complete skater and they went with the most complete skater. It happens. In 1994, the guy who won the LP didn't land a 3-3 (or 4-3, for that matter), not because the 3-3 wasn't valuable, but because those who did/could were either so far behind after the SP or deficient in other areas that it didn't matter. C'est la vie and all that jazz.

3. Takahashi beat Lysacek in the SP in terms of TES - Lysacek beat him thtere thanks to his PCS. But Takahashi did have a triple toe downgraded to a double as well in the LP, which might be what Jenna was thinking of. His two downgrades and the fall cost him the title.

[Badams]

I'm having a total deja vu moment. I feel like I've read this thread before...

[Aussie Willy]

Gee I never realised that Lysacek was so influential when it came to COP revisions.

[caseyedwards]

1. Regardless of what we feel about caseyedwards, the sum total of the changes made clearly reflect the fact that a quadless man won the Olympics and the ISU didn't want that. If you were to judge the Olympics based solely on the new TES rules, Plushenko wins.

2. No one at the Olympics was a complete skater and they went with the most complete skater. It happens. In 1994, the guy who won the LP didn't land a 3-3 (or 4-3, for that matter), not because the 3-3 wasn't valuable, but because those who did/could were either so far behind after the SP or deficient in other areas that it didn't matter. C'est la vie and all that jazz.

3. Takahashi beat Lysacek in the SP in terms of TES - Lysacek beat him thtere thanks to his PCS. But Takahashi did have a triple toe downgraded to a double as well in the LP, which might be what Jenna was thinking of. His two downgrades and the fall cost him the title.

1. This is right. Though I always read "The ISU changes things after every Olympics! It's not skater based!" LOL.

2. At least all men did 3A's and there wasn't a 2010 where a 3A-less man beat one with a 3A.

3. All true but Takahashi was treated much worse than Lysacek. What was with the ! to Lysacek but the total harshness on Takahashi.

I understand GOE but in 2010 and the whole season before and the previous was a holding back on difficulty to get good GOE on easier things. But the ISU changed of the GOE and quad value and step sequence importance. The best thing was almost not raising quad value but getting rid of a step sequence in the short. That was good for jumps.

And two judges gave Plushenko good GOE on his first 3A after the quad triple and it's obvious why that was. I wish all the judges had been like them.

[Spartacus]

--->


I know it wounds you to have Evan back.

And he might have a quad this time around! lol

ob·ses·sion [uhb-sesh-uhn]
noun
1. the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.
2. the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.
3. the state of being obsessed.
4. the act of obsessing.

Seriously, casey. Give it up, give it a rest, get some help.

No matter how much you obsess about the quad, you will never, ever change the fact that Evan Lysacek is the 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist.

*high five* F*ck yeah! Haters can stay pressed!

[Susan M]

It's funny how guys who used to defend their quadlessness so much, like Lysacek and Chan, decide to train and do quads eventually.

You must not have been following skating for very long. Lysacek included quads in his program in the years after Torino. In the US, Lysacek was the quad guy and Weir was the stylist, so Evan spent much of those years being seen as the jumper. When he had to stop training the quad, he seemed to be a little apologetic sometimes about not doing it. Yes, he defended his results, but I always got the impression he would have included a quad in his programs any time he was able to train them consistently.