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  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    What criteria are you applying? Lysacek was skating to CoP, and his spin and footwork content was much more difficult than Eldredge's.
    Eldredge is far and away a better spinner than Evan or anyone else in the last decade or so apart from Lambiel. I am sure the COP rules for level 4 spins would be easy for him to meet, and he would still do them better than anyone else.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Eldredge is far and away a better spinner than Evan or anyone else in the last decade or so apart from Lambiel. I am sure the COP rules for level 4 spins would be easy for him to meet, and he would still do them better than anyone else.
    I don't disagree, but Triple Butz and you were originally comparing their actual programs, not their overall ability or their potential.

  3. #703

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    It's true that today's step sequences are often more challenging than 6.0 footwork, and that some skaters can pack in more difficult content than others and be rewarded for it, but surely we can find some middle ground between 6.0 and some of the less attractive features of the current system?
    Hasn't there been a rule change such that only one of the two footwork sequences will be scored?

    That certainly will create more of a middle ground. I think it is a very positive change because it will allow skaters to focus solely on music and interpretation in one sequence. This could contribute to Performance and Choreography, will skaters with better basics/more difficult footwork will still be rewarded for it in the other sequence.

  4. #704

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Hasn't there been a rule change such that only one of the two footwork sequences will be scored?

    That certainly will create more of a middle ground. I think it is a very positive change because it will allow skaters to focus solely on music and interpretation in one sequence. This could contribute to Performance and Choreography, will skaters with better basics/more difficult footwork will still be rewarded for it in the other sequence.
    The second (choreo) step sequence does receive points, assuming it meets the minimum requirements to count as a step sequence. But unlike the first sequence there are no levels, so unlike the leveled step sequence there is no benefit to doing all different kinds of turns or turns in both directions or half the sequence on one foot or using modest or full upper body movement.

    Everyone gets the same base mark of 2.0 for the choreo step sequence, with the only difference being the GOEs, positive or negative.

    So this would be the opportunity to show off whatever kinds of steps the skater does best and can earn pluses for on quality or, say, quickness or originality, and to enhance the choreography and interpretation and earn pluses and higher PCS that way.

    It's only been a year so far, and last year some of the skaters probably had their programs choreographed before the rule was published, so hopefully going forward the skaters and choreographers will get the hang of using the choreo step sequence for its intended purpose.

  5. #705

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I'm among those who aren't too enamored of CoP step sequences. I often find myself enjoying level 2/3 sequences much more than the infrequent level 4s. There's the overemphasis on upper body movement, for one - I'd like to see more importance given to the footwork and less to bending, flailing, high-kicking etc. Also, I think the current scoring encourages choreographers to put together very similar step sequences that often bear little relation to the music. And they can go on forever while skaters check off all the requirements - even relatively fast skaters. It's true that today's step sequences are often more challenging than 6.0 footwork, and that some skaters can pack in more difficult content than others and be rewarded for it, but surely we can find some middle ground between 6.0 and some of the less attractive features of the current system?

    Personally, I would like to see straightline step sequences that go in something resembling an actual straight line, more originality in content and construction, at least some pretense of paying attention to the music and the concept of the program (if there is one), and less difficulty just for difficulty's sake.
    I agree with all my heart. While overall level of SS is improved, current criteria incourages senseless flailing, unrrelated to music and expression. Often I want to scream- "Stop the endless windmill with your hands, bending and kicking and listen to your music!" Some compromise must be found, or it becomes a parody.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  6. #706

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Hasn't there been a rule change such that only one of the two footwork sequences will be scored?

    That certainly will create more of a middle ground. I think it is a very positive change because it will allow skaters to focus solely on music and interpretation in one sequence. This could contribute to Performance and Choreography, will skaters with better basics/more difficult footwork will still be rewarded for it in the other sequence.
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    So this would be the opportunity to show off whatever kinds of steps the skater does best and can earn pluses for on quality or, say, quickness or originality, and to enhance the choreography and interpretation and earn pluses and higher PCS that way.

    It's only been a year so far, and last year some of the skaters probably had their programs choreographed before the rule was published, so hopefully going forward the skaters and choreographers will get the hang of using the choreo step sequence for its intended purpose.
    I think it'll depend on what sort of content and execution will get high GOEs. I know in theory GOEs and levels are not based on the same things, but if the judges score the choreo steps in a similar way to the regular step sequences, I'm not sure we'll see much differentiation between the two.

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