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  1. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    And here's someone throwing a tantrum worthy of a two year old after not winning said gold medal
    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...8bd7cf0970b-pi
    The discussion was an athlete's reaction to scores being posted/winning a gold medal; not stepping on a podium.

    This is the reaction of a patient/nervous man hoping to see if he held onto his lead and won a gold with a (slightly) flawed program. Only to see he lost the gold by 1.31 points.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    This is the reaction of a patient/nervous man hoping to see if he held onto his lead and won a gold with a (slightly) flawed program. Only to see he lost the gold by 1.31 points.
    A patient/nervous man? That is not my impression of Plushenko in this situation....

    Plushy is very lucky that he lost only with 1.31 points. If his PCS would have been scored according to his actual performance and not to his reputation, the difference would have been A LOT bigger.

  3. #363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Plushy is very lucky that he lost only with 1.31 points. If his PCS would have been scored according to his actual performance and not to his reputation, the difference would have been A LOT bigger.
    Surely you're not trying to argue that Plushenko was the only skater who generously scored at the Olympics?

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    The extreme reactions to Evan Lysacek's winning the OGM have only increased my admiration for him and his achievement.
    He certainly isn't "resting on his laurels".


    While Evan is not my favorite of the current US men, I have always been impressed with his work ethic and tremendous focus in competition which we've witnessed in person. I am thrilled he did win the OGM fair & square.

    I have never been an "uber" fan of the quad, and thank goodness other worthy skaters have had World/Olympic success notwithstanding it (Jeff Buttle - 2008 Worlds, for example). Just because a skater may not have a consistent quad is no reason to belittle/devalue everything else he/she has incorporated into his/her skating. I don't look at Evan or Jeff's accomplishments as an indication of regression in the sport.

  5. #365

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    I can't help but think that if there wasn't such an emphasis placed on having to do quads and so many triples, perhaps my beautiful Yagudin would have lasted longer on the competitive circuit. He went far too early. I'm sure there are others who face hip replacements and etc because training for the quad is merciless on your body. I think a quad is exciting, but it is far down the list of things a skater will do that attracts me to that skater. Plenty of quad mongers leave me totally cold. It is not the be all and end all of men's skating.

    And I'm sorry, but Plushy is just so darn geeky looking!

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Surely you're not trying to argue that Plushenko was the only skater who generously scored at the Olympics?
    There are different degrees of generosity, .
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 08-27-2011 at 03:14 PM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  7. #367
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    For the more vociferous, quad-obsessed fans, I suppose the name should be changed to "quad skating." To me there is very little exciting about seeing an extra revolution added to a jump, unless it is performed well and in beautiful sync with an exciting, well-choreographed program. Competitors are still learning how to consistently perform quads in a way that will not take away from their other strengths or sabotage their overall performance, not to mention wreak havoc on their bodies over time.

    The sport has simply not dealt well with everything that is involved in helping young skaters overcome the physical and mental challenges the quad presents. Slowly, with input from physics and computer experts, and with more interest, focus, discussion and integrated studies, as well as long-term coaching strategies, there seems to be a greater possibility for the perfecting of this extra revolution among a broader range of skaters. IMHO, the quad has thus far had a long, ugly, up-and-down, dubious and excruciating history in the sport of figure skating. Above all, I hate seeing skaters land it like a ton of bricks (or lose mastery of their triples in the process of training and competing the quad), and end up with numerous quad-related hip, groin, leg, thigh and ankle injuries over time.

    The following article re quad and triple jumps in figure skating is interesting:

    http://iceskatingresources.org/Triple&QuadJumps.html

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    Just in case people have forgotten....

    Thought this was funny.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    That looks completely opposite of the picture, but I'm sure they would be happy you paint them with such a wide brush of martyrdom.
    Anyone could see by their expressions before the marks came up they were devastated that they may have lost. It is the reason they came back. That was the reaction on relief!
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't know...if they had truly expected to win, I don't think they would've been as ecstatic and almost surprised. They really looked relieved after the scores came up and with that relief came the jubilation.
    Exactly!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    And here's someone throwing a tantrum worthy of a two year old after not winning said gold medal

    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...8bd7cf0970b-pi

    Poor Plush thought he'd be a shoo-in. smh
    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    The discussion was an athlete's reaction to scores being posted/winning a gold medal; not stepping on a podium.
    lolWe all know that what he did on the podium was a statement about feeling that he deserved the gold.
    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    This is the reaction of a patient/nervous man hoping to see if he held onto his lead and won a gold with a (slightly) flawed program. Only to see he lost the gold by 1.31 points.
    You forgot "arrogant".
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Just in case people have forgotten....

    Thought this was funny.
    A win is a win is a win.

  10. #370

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    paskatefan, and Holley Calmes,


    Consider yourselves "repped"!

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    Well, I think it is absolutely outrageous that 22 years after Ito did her first 3 ax successfully in competition, the female 2010 Olympic gold medalist did not have one in either of her programs. Talk about the sport not advancing!!!!! And who did she win over, a skater who did have the 3 ax in her programs? The judges sure got that one wrong didn't they?



    Probably need to explain for some , this is tongue-in-cheek

  12. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    To me there is very little exciting about seeing an extra revolution added to a jump, unless it is performed well and in beautiful sync with an exciting, well-choreographed program.



    That's the exact reason I loved Chan's Phantom program this year, the placement of the second quad with the music is just perfect.
    'Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.'--John Wayne

  13. #373
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    I'm not a big Chan-fan, but ITA, ChelleC. Outside of Chan's struggles in early season comps, his mastery of the quad has been impressive, largely because he most often has landed it seemingly effortlessly in beautiful sync and rhythm with his entire program. I don't think skaters should get points for doing revolutions if a jump is not landed well or at all. I may be in the minority with that view.

  14. #374

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    1. I tend to agree with caseyedwards. It's hard not to notice that the sum total of the changes made the quad more attractive, and that each of those changes would make the quad more attractive (less penalty for flawed quads. less penalty for ur'ed quads. Higher base value. Less ability to make up the points elsewhere - see footwork, with losing one sequence and the ChSt1). I can't prove causality, but I don't think it's a dramatic statement to believe so.

    2. That stated, I don't think this is unique to this Olympic games, of course. The Compulsories disappeared, but check out the mutation of the compulsory dances and the original dance over the years (in terms of numbers, etc). Or the existence/non existence of qualifying rounds.

    3. I do not agree that the changes made between 2006 and 2010 hurt the quad in anyway. I don't see how losing two spins (one in each program) hurts the quad's import. I don't see how the backloading bonus hurts the quad. I don't see how judging PCS accurately hurts the quad. The quad left for a number of reasons, but the changes made weren't among them, imo.
    It was mentioned how with the underotating being more punished your 9 point attempt would go down to 4 and if you fell you woul do down to zero. Takahashi did an underroated quad. So he did more than 3 revolutions. Everybody could see it was more than 3 but less than 4. For that he got 1 point. More than 3 revolutions was worth 1 point! But he fell so he also got a minus 1 so all that was worth zero points in the end. Zero points for more than 3 revolutions. That was so harsh it had to be changed. Look at that graphic of the final score board. Lysacek no quad, Chan no quad, Weir no quad, Oda no quad (and he could do them. Sometimes no one can do quads better than Oda but quads were banned from Oda programs. Too stupid to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Every sport makes changes after every season, that is how rule books get thicker and thicker throughout the years.The first rulebook for skating was probably only a page long.
    But there was a clear theme to the skating changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I can't help but think that if there wasn't such an emphasis placed on having to do quads and so many triples, perhaps my beautiful Yagudin would have lasted longer on the competitive circuit. He went far too early. I'm sure there are others who face hip replacements and etc because training for the quad is merciless on your body. I think a quad is exciting, but it is far down the list of things a skater will do that attracts me to that skater. Plenty of quad mongers leave me totally cold. It is not the be all and end all of men's skating.

    And I'm sorry, but Plushy is just so darn geeky looking!
    But it is so athletic and pushes the boundries of the athleticism. Jumps are worth the most in terms of technical elements and to see people go for a something that can be done and do everything else is so impressive. I just view it as a sliding scale and that is not what COP does but its what 6.0 did in many ways. So the pushing of the hardest tech in jumps makes the whole things more impressive to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    For the more vociferous, quad-obsessed fans, I suppose the name should be changed to "quad skating." To me there is very little exciting about seeing an extra revolution added to a jump, unless it is performed well and in beautiful sync with an exciting, well-choreographed program. Competitors are still learning how to consistently perform quads in a way that will not take away from their other strengths or sabotage their overall performance, not to mention wreak havoc on their bodies over time.

    The sport has simply not dealt well with everything that is involved in helping young skaters overcome the physical and mental challenges the quad presents. Slowly, with input from physics and computer experts, and with more interest, focus, discussion and integrated studies, as well as long-term coaching strategies, there seems to be a greater possibility for the perfecting of this extra revolution among a broader range of skaters. IMHO, the quad has thus far had a long, ugly, up-and-down, dubious and excruciating history in the sport of figure skating. Above all, I hate seeing skaters land it like a ton of bricks (or lose mastery of their triples in the process of training and competing the quad), and end up with numerous quad-related hip, groin, leg, thigh and ankle injuries over time.

    The following article re quad and triple jumps in figure skating is interesting:

    http://iceskatingresources.org/Triple&QuadJumps.html
    This is right in many ways but at the Olympics - three in a row - men did do quads. So even if it was basically up and down for quads season long in the Olympic season and at the Olympics since 1998 it was there and the winner did one.

    No one is saying quad skating. It is just with the jumps for a winner at the Olympics there should be a quad. I know Lyacek was saying anyone who didn't like his win thought that the competition should just be one jump and that's it and whoever does the biggest should win. That is not true. I want to see a person win who went for everything and that includes a quad.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    It was mentioned how with the underotating being more punished your 9 point attempt would go down to 4 and if you fell you woul do down to zero. Takahashi did an underroated quad. So he did more than 3 revolutions. Everybody could see it was more than 3 but less than 4. For that he got 1 point. More than 3 revolutions was worth 1 point! But he fell so he also got a minus 1 so all that was worth zero points in the end. Zero points for more than 3 revolutions. That was so harsh it had to be changed. Look at that graphic of the final score board. Lysacek no quad, Chan no quad, Weir no quad, Oda no quad (and he could do them. Sometimes no one can do quads better than Oda but quads were banned from Oda programs. Too stupid to do.



    But there was a clear theme to the skating changes.



    But it is so athletic and pushes the boundries of the athleticism. Jumps are worth the most in terms of technical elements and to see people go for a something that can be done and do everything else is so impressive. I just view it as a sliding scale and that is not what COP does but its what 6.0 did in many ways. So the pushing of the hardest tech in jumps makes the whole things more impressive to me.



    This is right in many ways but at the Olympics - three in a row - men did do quads. So even if it was basically up and down for quads season long in the Olympic season and at the Olympics since 1998 it was there and the winner did one.

    No one is saying quad skating. It is just with the jumps for a winner at the Olympics there should be a quad. I know Lyacek was saying anyone who didn't like his win thought that the competition should just be one jump and that's it and whoever does the biggest should win. That is not true. I want to see a person win who went for everything and that includes a quad.
    So you're saying that if Lysacek landed a quad, you would have supported his win? Somehow, I find that hard to believe.

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    What you think I just have some hatred of Lysacek? No. His win would have been acceptable if there'd been a quad in it.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post







    I want to see a person win who went for everything and that includes a quad.
    But Plushenko did not include a triple flip or a three jump combo in his program, so he didn't go for everything either...

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    What you think I just have some hatred of Lysacek? No. His win would have been acceptable if there'd been a quad in it.
    Why? Acting as you do, posting anti-Lysacek/pro-quad comments on just about every internet article written post-Vancouver about Evan, trashing a book that mentions Evan on online bookstores' websites, and calling Evan a chicken during an online chat with him... These are not the actions of someone who is upset because Evan didn't do a quad in the 2010 Olympics. Those are the actions of someone who does not like Evan Lysacek. Not someone who simply wishes Evan had done a quad in the Olympics.

  19. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by danafan View Post
    But Plushenko did not include a triple flip or a three jump combo in his program, so he didn't go for everything either...
    I know. That was not what I was describing. More like Chan at 2011 worlds or Takahashi at 2010 worlds.

  20. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by sassybuford View Post
    Why? Acting as you do, posting anti-Lysacek/pro-quad comments on just about every internet article written post-Vancouver about Evan, trashing a book that mentions Evan on online bookstores' websites, and calling Evan a chicken during an online chat with him... These are not the actions of someone who is upset because Evan didn't do a quad in the 2010 Olympics. Those are the actions of someone who does not like Evan Lysacek. Not someone who simply wishes Evan had done a quad in the Olympics.
    That is not true. There wouldn't be anything like that. You think I'd be saying "he did a quad but not a quad combo?" or something?

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