View Poll Results: Can Ilinykh and Katsalapov win Olympic Gold in 2014?
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One can make the exact same argument in reverse, of course. Now that North America's doing well, all of a sudden politics is a nasty business, whereas before it was okay. I certainly remember a lot of "North Americans are whiners/don't deserve the medals" business during Nagano with B/K (of course, B/K shouldn't have been on the podium, but that's a different conversation)
I agree. My point was more that they were the inarguable number one when they made their ascent, and it was clear the season prior that they would (technical excellence, V/M often outscoring D/L in terms of TES). To me, it's not clear that the path to Russia's number one is as easy as everyone seems to think it is, and this past season was a clear demonstration of why.
Originally Posted by VarBar
Now, people may argue that in the future, that'll change; obviously, that's what we're debating.
julieann, I get the gist of what you're saying, but I'd argue that you're making some wierd comments.
1. The team is that is, at best, third best in their coaching environment just won the bronze medal. Now, that's a fluke. Fine. They just earned fourth place, in their senior debuts, at worlds. That they did so being merely third in their coaching group is incredible. That P/B didn't get the bronze despite being the number one for their coach could be interpreted as troubling.
2. But no matter, they're at a new coach now. That coach happens to be trending towards the same situation that you decry as will negatively affect the Shibutanis chances towards Sochi - the team in Detroit is becoming larger. They have two of the top five teams at worlds and an increasingly large stable of up-and-coming talent.
3. The Shibutanis have shown tremendous readiness this season did. They got feedback early, worked really hard on their GW sequences, and showed up at each event better than before. Pechelat/Bourzat struggled to find a good fit program, but eventually turned it on and early on the season I actually thought they might challenge D/W. By the GPF that proved for naught, of course.
4. They might be reenergized, but we still don't know if the team of K/C et al will be a good fit for them. Remember, they left Zhulin somewhat unwillingly.
5. The Shibutanis are younger. I mean, basically we're wondering if a team will skate for four senior seasons. Then we're wondering if a team will skate for eleven senior seasons. I know which one I'd place my bets on.
6. Obviously, your larger point of "no one can predict the future" is still salient, but that doesn't mean dismissing points that would you lead you to one conclusion over another.
I mean, I agree with you that P&B will probably retire, and I am pessimistic enough not to expect a medal for them, but it's not impossible, and has even happened under CoP, with GrushGons in 2006. I don't think there will be room for them; it's going to be V&M, D&W, and I think there will be politiking for a Russian team to take the third spot, but I can't see any of the current teams pulling up to that position. Maybe if the Russian teams suck enough, there will be a small opening for P&B.
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
Well, I don't believe in P/B medalling at Worlds anymore. Bronze was in their hands already and the judges were ready to give it to them, but these two gave it away! Maybe at next Worlds they'll have a chance again, but if they weren't able to do it in Russia, at the rink they've been training for a while, then next year, with the pressure of home crowd... I don't know.
Originally Posted by Cherub721
Back to I/K: they are incredibly talented, charismatic and their basic skills are just great. They don't need politicking to beat the Shibs, P/B or even D/W, really. What they need is consistency, clean skating and improving from one competition to another. Then there would be no question about Russian number one, I'm sure. They couldn't get it with Zhulin (their perfomances at Euros were great though), maybe Morozov can help them, at least his skaters are usually well prepared, we will see
ITA. I would also add "great programs" to your list of what they need. The talent and chemistry are definitely there. They have the special "it" factor that Virtue & Moir had at that age.
Originally Posted by Autumn_girl