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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    I believe both Maksim and Tanya have had enough of the "big competition" experience and they will somehow manage the "consistency" issue.

    Both pairs, M/T and V/M were great. Every skater in the pair was great. I guess it was a great idea to take the partners, who were developing a little bit faster and put them in a new, outstanding, pair.
    Did you mean Mukhartova-Trankov and Volosozhar-Morozov(?) ?

    Volosozhar would have won a world medal long ago with a partner that matched her skills. Her partner could not land the jumps. That's not a 'great' pair.

    Mukhartova-Trankov were OK, but I did not see them as developing into a 'great' pair. Both had talent though.

    So the pairing of Volosozhar-Trankov was a good move, but I would have liked to see Mukhartova in the pairs field too. I liked her practice clips with Blanchard and felt they made a much better pair than M&T. Too bad it did not work out for her (and Jerome).

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    Mukhortova & Trankov did not have good chemistry together which is why I think they never would have been a great pair, even though both are excellent solo pair skaters.

  3. #43
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    Although I am not a fan of Sale & Pelletier I do have to agree David is a good candidate for most consistent male pairs skater. I dont remember him ever making a mistake on any solo element atleast in the 99-2000 through 2001-2002 seasons, and his technique on lifts and throws was excellent and very consistent. Like Vash said they werent around long though so it is hard to judge. Pro competitions were almost gone and really fluff by then so I dont look at those either.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Did you mean Mukhartova-Trankov and Volosozhar-Morozov(?) ?

    Volosozhar would have won a world medal long ago with a partner that matched her skills. Her partner could not land the jumps. That's not a 'great' pair.

    Mukhartova-Trankov were OK, but I did not see them as developing into a 'great' pair. Both had talent though.
    Yes, I meant exactly this.

    In my opinion, "greatness" is not all and only about jumps. I am the person who thinks of "patinage artistique" and not "figure skating". Though, tastes differ, sure.

  5. #45
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    Maria Mukhortova also had all the emotion and expression on ice (other than her diva-ness after the performance was done) of a brick, and showed little capability of handling any choreography other than the simplistic dreck that Vassiliev gave them. That, along with jump consistency and lack of connection, was certainly going to hold them back as well.

    Stanislav was wonderful with the lifts and throws, and was serviceable on skates, and presented Tatiana very well. But certainly, this new team is indeed the stronger and more consistent performers of each of the individual teams paired together.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    Yes, I meant exactly this.

    In my opinion, "greatness" is not all and only about jumps. I am the person who thinks of "patinage artistique" and not "figure skating". Though, tastes differ, sure.
    It's not all about jumps but jumps are an important part of pairs skating at the eligible level. When one partner absolutely cannot land the jumps while the other lands them consistently, it creates a lack of unison, and lack of 'two shall skate as one'. Morozov was way below Tatiana in talent. His short comings were evident even with his earlier partner - Aliona Savchenko. That's not a great pair. They may be your favorites, but it does not make them 'great'.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    It's not all about jumps but jumps are an important part of pairs skating at the eligible level.
    Well unless your name is Jamie Sale atleast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    It's not all about jumps but jumps are an important part of pairs skating at the eligible level. When one partner absolutely cannot land the jumps while the other lands them consistently, it creates a lack of unison, and lack of 'two shall skate as one'. Morozov was way below Tatiana in talent. His short comings were evident even with his earlier partner - Aliona Savchenko. That's not a great pair. They may be your favorites, but it does not make them 'great'.
    Okay. Which pair, except V/T, is great at the moment in your point of view? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    Okay. Which pair, except V/T, is great at the moment in your point of view? Just curious.
    There are many great pairs teams in the world, otherwise they wouldn't bother having competitions to prove it. They would just have a an exhibition of the one with the most points or the reigning world champion; at any rate, at this moment, that title would go to Aliona and Robin. Last year it would have been Pang and Tong.

    Medals can change hands at any competition, just because someone isn't wearing gold at that time doesn't mean they aren't great.

    I feel Stas and Maria were instrumental in those teams getting pretty far and deserve credit. Tatiana and Maxim weren't perfect all the time and messed up too (probably more than some remember), maybe not as much as their partner but does it matter? Points taken off your score is points taken off your score. They are certainly better off now and Stas seems like he would rather be coaching and maybe even choreographing, so it's really a win/win for everyone but Maria.

    PS I like their whoever does their costumes. They go very well with the music and choreography and they compliment each other. She looks very pretty and at the same time he looks very masculine.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    at any rate, at this moment, that title would go to Aliona and Robin. Last year it would have been Pang and Tong.
    As for Alion and Robin I agree, but Pang-Tong are just technically great. The same goes for me for all the chinese pairs actually. I admit they are technically great, but the artistic side leaves much to be desired. That was why I asked the question.

    Of course that is just my opinion.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    As for Alion and Robin I agree, but Pang-Tong are just technically great. The same goes for me for all the chinese pairs actually. I admit they are technically great, but the artistic side leaves much to be desired. That was why I asked the question.

    Of course that is just my opinion.
    I do agree, I think P/T did great both artistically and technically at the Olympic LP other than that they (and the rest of the Chinese) are artistically lacking most of the time. Pang's lack of flexibility and bent knees really are tiresome. It's tough getting a total package all the time....free of mistakes, but when it happens (like S/S World programs)

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    They just need to continue to work this way. They are impressive, their skating skills are very good, and with time, they will probably improve their unisson and choreo.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    As for Alion and Robin I agree, but Pang-Tong are just technically great. The same goes for me for all the chinese pairs actually. I admit they are technically great, but the artistic side leaves much to be desired. That was why I asked the question.

    Of course that is just my opinion.
    I disagree with you. Pang and Tong have improved their artistry significantly. They are much more in tune with the music and connect more with the audience.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    Okay. Which pair, except V/T, is great at the moment in your point of view? Just curious.
    I don't consider V&T a great pair yet. They have the potential. It's too early to decide if they are great or not.

    Currently there is no great pair in the world. JMO. No need to roll eyes.

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    Personally I find Pang & Tong the most overrated pair out there. I like them as people, and they have always had to work to get where they are, so in that sense I am happy to see them do well. Still I dont even find them technically that great. Their tricks dont really compare to their teammates the Zhangs, the Germans, or the Russians. Their ground elements like spins, spirals, death spirals are not that good, and often sloppy. As for their artistry they have developed a nice feel of music and rapport, but their basic skating skills are not the best and they are quite sloppy. Their choreography is typically good but nothing exceptional either.

    I used to think they were undermarked since the Chinese fed. was politiking hard for the Zhangs and Shen & Zhou but since the fall of 09 they have been well overmarked. I was relieved they didnt get the gold in Vancouver since I dont think they deserved it, and I was even surprised they won the LP by several points with S&Z just having one mistake on a lift.

    Sorry just my personal opinion. I know there are many who think they are great and that is fine. I admire that as rough as they still are they worked hard to try and improve their artistry for many years, while the Zhangs only started to do that in 2009 or so, but it was too little too late it turned out.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't consider V&T a great pair yet. They have the potential. It's too early to decide if they are great or not.

    Currently there is no great pair in the world. JMO. No need to roll eyes.
    I think S/S are pretty great. I also think V/T showed last year they have everything to be great. Dominating, in fact- all elements are in place, but only time will tell if they have required luck. ( I think they do have athletic ability, skills, artistry and work ethic, but luck, health, program choices, nerves of steel at the right moment are essential). I really hope they win Sochi- there is nothing I don't like about that pairing.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I disagree with you. Pang and Tong have improved their artistry significantly. They are much more in tune with the music and connect more with the audience.
    They sure did, no way of denying this fact. But still, in my opinion, they are very far from the artistic effect that S/S's skating produces and V/T's too.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    They sure did, no way of denying this fact. But still, in my opinion, they are very far from the artistic effect that S/S's skating produces and V/T's too.
    I think V/T have stronger basic skating than P/T, but P/T are still better artistically.

  19. #59

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    V/T have not yet developed their artistry/presentation, which is understandable for a newly formed pair, even though they are experienced. They needed to get the technical parts worked out their first season together.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    but Pang-Tong are just technically great. The same goes for me for all the chinese pairs actually.
    I think this applies only to the throw jumps.

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