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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I fail to see what you find funny about me just stating a simple truth.
    Then trying to explain it to you again would be a waste of my of my time...anyway...back on topic...

  2. #22
    Crazy Russian Tundra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I think there are several young Russian pairs that can develop in two years (though the RSF may try to hold them down in order to keep V&T as the top Russian pair for 2014).

    Gerboldt & Enberg have a lot of promise and a great coach in Tamara. It typically takes her only a couple of years to bring a pair into top form.

    Bazarova-Larianov: They have shown progress each year and they are moving up. They need more consistency and more experience, but they are in a position to challenge V&T next year if they continue to grow.

    Kawaguchi-Smirnov can challenge V&T right now, but they are not young anymore, and I don't think they will be even around in 2014.

    Stobova (sp?) & Klimov have time to develop.

    My favorite pair Iliushechkina-Maisuradze could become very good but they have not support from their fed, so they should be looking at 2018, and not 2014.
    All the pairs mentioned are really very nice and very professional and I really love Bazarova-Larionov, but most of them lack the experience which VT have. Kavaguchi-Smirnov are probably the closest if not equal, but Yuko was not very much successful in the past two seasons and honestly, I don't believe she will ever recover again.

    G/E are rather young to compete with V/T this or the next season.

    B/L definitely need to become more emotional and less concentrated on the skating, otherwise every time the skate you just feel the stress and pressure they are under.

    I/M are great, but they tend to have constant ups and downs, which is not very good.

  3. #23

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    I am looking at two years later; not next season.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I love Gerboldt and Enbert, but I don't see them catching up to or passing V/T.
    Don't forget who their coach is.

  5. #25
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    Only two competitions together? I must have hallucinated those 2 or 3 Russian regional events last season, Russian Nationals, Mt. Blanc Trophy and Worlds...or some combo of them for V/T to have only competed twice together. And remarkably, except for his step out of the 3S at Worlds, they pretty much improved from one event to the next (and she had a few mistakes as well; I'm sure that's part of learning to become a pair together, getting timing right together, etc).

    I would love to see them dump Moronsov as choreographer, but his craptastic programs get the scores and results. Hopefully they will continue on the upward trajectory (and they said in their blog that they have been training a throw 3F at this point), skate together as a pair better, and then let the chips fall where they may.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  6. #26
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    See, I have no problem with them keeping him as a choreographer, precisely because he does know how to choreograph a winning program. Regardless of what fans may think or want, he understands COP and gets results. If I were a skater, I'd be knocking on his door.
    Adelina Sotnikova defeated the curse of Esta She is indeed the Greatest Of All Time!

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    My fondest hope is that V/T and S/S will push each other and we'll see fantastic pairs skating all the way through 2014. And, for that matter, I hope V/T pushes the rest of the Russian pairs teams as well.
    THIS. And I want everyone to stay injury-free!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Only two competitions together? I must have hallucinated those 2 or 3 Russian regional events last season, Russian Nationals, Mt. Blanc Trophy and Worlds...or some combo of them for V/T to have only competed twice together. And remarkably, except for his step out of the 3S at Worlds, they pretty much improved from one event to the next (and she had a few mistakes as well; I'm sure that's part of learning to become a pair together, getting timing right together, etc).
    Who was their main competition at the MBT? The only reason they had to go was to get the minimum score to compete other wise they would not have bothered going in a normal competitive season. And they really just phoned in the performance anyway. So that leaves Russian Nationals where they were flawless (although her double-footed landed had been debated) and Worlds where he had a step out on a 3S. That is why I said consistency can't be judged on two competitions; meaning big competitions. It needs to be judged based on years of being togther.

    No, as senior world class skaters I don't count local competitions as anything more than glorified practices. I'm sure some skaters take them more seriously but the score are usually way off and should be taken with a grain of salt.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Who was their main competition at the MBT? The only reason they had to go was to get the minimum score to compete other wise they would not have bothered going in a normal competitive season. And they really just phoned in the performance anyway. So that leaves Russian Nationals where they were flawless (although her double-footed landed had been debated) and Worlds where he had a step out on a 3S. That is why I said consistency can't be judged on two competitions; meaning big competitions. It needs to be judged based on years of being togther.

    No, as senior world class skaters I don't count local competitions as anything more than glorified practices. I'm sure some skaters take them more seriously but the score are usually way off and should be taken with a grain of salt.
    What about the fact that Voloszhar and Trankov were both very consistent jumpers in their previous partnerships. Yes Trankov had those Olympic mistakes but in most times he was landing the jumps it was Maria who wasn't. Same goes for Tatiana with her old partner. The other elements from what we've seen have been fairly consistent too.

    And for a new pair a competition is still a competition. They performed brilliantly at their first worlds together.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    What about the fact that Voloszhar and Trankov were both very consistent jumpers in their previous partnerships. Yes Trankov had those Olympic mistakes but in most times he was landing the jumps it was Maria who wasn't. Same goes for Tatiana with her old partner. The other elements from what we've seen have been fairly consistent too.

    And for a new pair a competition is still a competition. They performed brilliantly at their first worlds together.
    They were pretty consistent, they were certainly the better partners of the partnerships they were in. But I'm not going to hop on the I hate Maria and Stas bandwagon that seems to be so popular. The fact is Maria and Stas weren't as bad as some make them out to be. Stas was a terrible jumper (actually he couldn't land jumps) but he was a fabulous thrower and lifter. He made her look really good and was 1/2 of a World 4th place pair, Tatiana couldn't have done it without him. She had her fair share of falls, step outs, two footed landings; you just may not have noticed because of his mistakes or you were just focusing on her better attributes like her posture of body lines.

    Same with Maria and Maxim; No way could they have won all those medals with just Maxim holding up the two all on his own. He too has has his fair share of falls, step outs and mistakes. Maria wasn't the most consistent of the pair but all the blame can't be laid at her her door any more than it can be laid at Stas'.

    Both Tatiana and Max will make mistakes, they are humans, and like I said they only have had two big competitions under their belts so far. Russian Nationals was as close to perfect as far as I can remember and Max had only one small error on a jump in the free at Worlds. They will have about 30 or so competitions before the Olympics, I'm sure they will be far more consistent than their former partnerships once they get into their groove.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    They were pretty consistent, they were certainly the better partners of the partnerships they were in. But I'm not going to hop on the I hate Maria and Stas bandwagon that seems to be so popular. The fact is Maria and Stas weren't as bad as some make them out to be. Stas was a terrible jumper (actually he couldn't land jumps) but he was a fabulous thrower and lifter. He made her look really good and was 1/2 of a World 4th place pair, Tatiana couldn't have done it without him. She had her fair share of falls, step outs, two footed landings; you just may not have noticed because of his mistakes or you were just focusing on her better attributes like her posture of body lines.

    Same with Maria and Maxim; No way could they have won all those medals with just Maxim holding up the two all on his own. He too has has his fair share of falls, step outs and mistakes. Maria wasn't the most consistent of the pair but all the blame can't be laid at her her door any more than it can be laid at Stas'.

    Both Tatiana and Max will make mistakes, they are humans, and like I said they only have had two big competitions under their belts so far. Russian Nationals was as close to perfect as far as I can remember and Max had only one small error on a jump in the free at Worlds. They will have about 30 or so competitions before the Olympics, I'm sure they will be far more consistent than their former partnerships once they get into their groove.
    So what if the have only two big competitions under their belt, they've been consistent so far. Why would the somehow get less consistent later on? And I don't know why only big competitions count either. Those little competitons qualified them to Nationals and qualified them to worlds. They may not have been the biggest competition ever but they were important.

    In terms of Stas /Maria. I think Stas was holding Tatiana back. While he had lovely throws and lifts, his skating in and of itself was a huge mis match.

    However, Maria is a different category and I actually think its an insult to compare her to Stas. Maria is an absolutely gorgeous skater to watch on the ice. She's just not the best jumper although she was getting better. Obviously Trankov is more to blame for their bad placement in the Olympics. But Maria has messed up plenty of words.

  12. #32
    Crazy Russian Tundra
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    I believe both Maksim and Tanya have had enough of the "big competition" experience and they will somehow manage the "consistency" issue.

    Both pairs, M/T and V/M were great. Every skater in the pair was great. I guess it was a great idea to take the partners, who were developing a little bit faster and put them in a new, outstanding, pair.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    So what if the have only two big competitions under their belt, they've been consistent so far. Why would the somehow get less consistent later on? And I don't know why only big competitions count either. Those little competitions qualified them to Nationals and qualified them to worlds. They may not have been the biggest competition ever but they were important.
    I guess it depends on your terms of consistency. If I told a student driver to drive three miles and said they were a consistently good driver because they didn't get a ticket would be a premature assessment. Is it too soon to judge V/T consistency? No, they did perfectly at nationals, a step out at worlds and if your want to count MB (where they both did sorta ) their Constancy at this point isn't perfect. No, they won't get less consistent, only better, but like all teams they aren't immune to mistakes.

    In terms of Stas /Maria. I think Stas was holding Tatiana back. While he had lovely throws and lifts, his skating in and of itself was a huge mis match.

    However, Maria is a different category and I actually think its an insult to compare her to Stas. Maria is an absolutely gorgeous skater to watch on the ice. She's just not the best jumper although she was getting better. Obviously Trankov is more to blame for their bad placement in the Olympics. But Maria has messed up plenty of words.
    You're mis-understanding me. I wasn't comparing Maria and Stas like apples to apples, I was comparing them as the slightly weaker of the pairs. Stas was very athletically built, probably not built so much for jumping; where as Maria was a gorgeous dancer on ice who's jumps were also hit or miss. Anyone is prone to mistakes and all skaters make them.

    The original statement that was made was that someone hoped Tatiana and Maxim can be more consistent than Aliona and Robin. But Aliona and Robin have already skated over 50 competitions together and I don't think S/S are inconsistent. They make a few errors from time to time and every team does that, no matter how early or how late it is in ones career. Sometimes a pair can go a few competitions looking fine and sometimes they can't go one without messing up.

    V/T could go their entire career together without making a mistake in competition, but they have made several errors in their past that can't be blamed on their former partners. I hope it doesn't happen to them, every fan hopes for that skate where the crowd is standing before the skate is done. I hope as skaters they can experience that.

  14. #34

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    I think by definition of consistency floating here, the only team that can ever be classified as consistent would be Totmanina and Marinin. All the other team manages to fall at least once every two competition or double one of their jumps. I am yet to see V/T fall on any of the program they have done (exhibition or competition program). Mount Blanc, they both stepped out of SBS(mount Blanc event was held at high altitude as well), yet they did not fall... They did not fall or double their jumps at Russia cup event in perm to my knowledge. This for me among current crop of pairs is an enviable track record. As much as I like S/S, they make uncharacteristic mistakes very often, P/T just can't do their SBS jumps with falling or doubling.


    AS for beating savchenko and szolkowy depend very much on how S/S does their jumps. If they skate like at Moscow, then Tania and Max will need a different choreographer.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    I think by definition of consistency floating here, the only team that can ever be classified as consistent would be Totmanina and Marinin. All the other team manages to fall at least once every two competition or double one of their jumps. I am yet to see V/T fall on any of the program they have done (exhibition or competition program). Mount Blanc, they both stepped out of SBS(mount Blanc event was held at high altitude as well), yet they did not fall... They did not fall or double their jumps at Russia cup event in perm to my knowledge. This for me among current crop of pairs is an enviable track record. As much as I like S/S, they make uncharacteristic mistakes very often, P/T just can't do their SBS jumps with falling or doubling.
    Technically, not entirely true. Evidence here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfX-sPtVCmg and when that happened it happened with a bang
    But despite that I agree they were the most consistent team in Pairs skating.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by millipied View Post
    Technically, not entirely true. Evidence here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfX-sPtVCmg and when that happened it happened with a bang
    But despite that I agree they were the most consistent team in Pairs skating.
    I know, that was a scary fall.

  17. #37

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    Totmianina-Marinin and Gordeeva-Grinkov were the most consistent pairs. G&G's 1990 worlds problems (due to Katia missing her 3t and later the 2A combination) were an exception, IMO. Rodnina-Zaitsev were also very consistent but they were not doing the difficult jumps and throws those days, so it's hard to compare them with these two pairs.
    Last edited by Vash01; 08-16-2011 at 08:17 PM.

  18. #38

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    I think that David Pelletier may have been the most consistent pair skater ever. I might be wrong, but I don't remember him missing a single jump in competition in the years he competed with Sale.
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe.

  19. #39

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    An injury-free stretch of time between now & the Olympics and better costumes. They have the goods right now to be at the top of the podium. Their big competition by 2014 will likely come from Sui/Han and (I hope) Aliona/Robin.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingsit View Post
    I think that David Pelletier may have been the most consistent pair skater ever. I might be wrong, but I don't remember him missing a single jump in competition in the years he competed with Sale.
    They only skated for 3 seasons at the world level. My vote for the most consistent male pairs skater goes to Sergei Grinkov, despite his minor errors at the 1994 Olympics. Before that, I never saw him miss a jump.

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