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  1. #81
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    Ina & Dungen had a shaky lift in the short program although most of their other elements were very good, and their unision was by far the worst of all the top couples at the time. They also really lacked speed compared to the other top couples. 3rd place in the short program could have gone either way but it wasnt an unjustified result. Elena & Anton had also been the dominant pair that season, usually skating fans understand that gives you some benefit of doubt with judges (human beings, not robots) and accept it, but it seems Elena & Anton never get much benefit with alot of people.

    The pro skating World was dead by the time both B&S and S&P turned pro anyway. I dont know how you can even judge them much. The only competitions were cheesy team competitions, one held in Canada and one held in the U.S, so easy to undestand who would have the political advantage in those. Both skated on Stars on Ice for years and were excellent show skaters. Of course S&P were more popular since they had been cast as the heroes and B&S as the villians to all of North America in the media milked SLC so called scandal.

    I agree about S&P's posture leaving alot to be desired btw. Especialy his.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I agree entirely. The most beautiful and the most underappreciated pair ever.
    Except on this forum where B/S have been sanctified. I read that people like to pick on Elena and Tatiana while ignoring the flaws in other pairs, but I really don't see that at all. There was a very vocal group here that maligned Shen/Zhao before Vancouver, and I remember there were people waiting for S/Z to fail and critiquing everything about them after they became fan favorites in 2003-2004. Also, let's not pretend that Jamie Sale is particularly well-liked, as I think posters have ridiculed her way more than praised her.

    Listen, I love Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze (one of my favorite pairs of all-time) and grew to absolutely respect what Totmianina/Marinin brought to pair skating, but there's no need to victimize them just because there's a perception that the majority prefers other pairs (not really in Berezhnaya's case but in Totmianina's) because they have plenty of respect for their skills and OGMs.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Except on this forum where B/S have been sanctified. I read that people like to pick on Elena and Tatiana while ignoring the flaws in other pairs, but I really don't see that at all. There was a very vocal group here that maligned Shen/Zhao before Vancouver, and I remember there were people waiting for S/Z to fail and critiquing everything about them after they became fan favorites in 2003-2004. Also, let's not pretend that Jamie Sale is particularly well-liked, as I think posters have ridiculed her way more than praised her.

    Listen, I love Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze (one of my favorite pairs of all-time) and grew to absolutely respect what Totmianina/Marinin brought to pair skating, but there's no need to victimize them just because there's a perception that the majority prefers other pairs (not really in Berezhnaya's case but in Totmianina's) because they have plenty of respect for their skills and OGMs.
    I have to disagree with this somewhat. I have seen a lot of nit picky posts about even Elena's strengths (and some posters see nothing positive about her), while other pairs like all the Chinese pairs and Canadian (S&P in particular) are not dissected the way B&S have been. T&M are routinely slammed, and they hardly ever get the respect they deserve. Their OGM has an asterisk on this board ("because of S&Z's injury"). I was never a Shen & Zhao fan and never will be. I respect their perserverance and the positives about them. I respect the way they improved artistically, but I would never put them in the 'revered' category (like "best ever") the way some fsu posters have done. I know it's a matter of taste, but their flaws rarely get discussed here. Even the poor postures of Pang or Z&Z is hardly ever mentioned here. S&P had tons of flaws and some of them did get mentioned here, but only because their names are mentioned alongside B&S's. As soon as you mention B&S or T&M, there are tons of negative comments about them. Still, the Plushenko comments take the cake, IMO but that's a different topic altogether.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I have to disagree with this somewhat. I have seen a lot of nit picky posts about even Elena's strengths (and some posters see nothing positive about her), while other pairs like all the Chinese pairs and Canadian (S&P in particular) are not dissected the way B&S have been. T&M are routinely slammed, and they hardly ever get the respect they deserve. Their OGM has an asterisk on this board ("because of S&Z's injury"). I was never a Shen & Zhao fan and never will be. I respect their perserverance and the positives about them. I respect the way they improved artistically, but I would never put them in the 'revered' category (like "best ever") the way some fsu posters have done. I know it's a matter of taste, but their flaws rarely get discussed here. Even the poor postures of Pang or Z&Z is hardly ever mentioned here. S&P had tons of flaws and some of them did get mentioned here, but only because their names are mentioned alongside B&S's. As soon as you mention B&S or T&M, there are tons of negative comments about them. Still, the Plushenko comments take the cake, IMO but that's a different topic altogether.
    I actually feel like B/S are one of the least criticized pairs in FSU - I rarely see them criticized often on this forum. They are an amazing pair, but for some reason I never got why people said Elena's toe point was perfect, because I've seen a couple very obvious times when it wasn't. In contrast, S/P have been criticized much more severely. It's clear that on this forum B/S are much more favored.

    But I agree that T/M have been unfairly criticized. IMO their presentation style may not be as engaging as B/S and S/Z's, but they were strong in almost every other aspect. I remember someone once saying S/Z should have won in 2004 Worlds because Pang/Tong were so good in the freeskate, they were better than T/M. And I feel that S/Z and T/M were almost equal in 2006 if S/Z were in full health, especially with T/M's consistency.

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    Individual posters say all kinds of things, but overall, I don't see T/M being criticized that much. Of course, there isn't really much attention given to them either so I can see how they are underrated.

    Also, the Chinese are often criticized (they can't spin, they don't have the correct throw technique, they aren't classic, etc.). I think it comes down to who you're a fan of and if you're a big fan of one skater and not the other, you tend to notice any criticism and negative post. As for posters critiquing one pair but being easy on their favorites, the truth is, it happens to every skater. A loyal huge fan of S/P may go out of his/her way to criticize B/S but downplay S/P's negatives and a loyal fan of B/S will do the opposite.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #86
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    Meanwhile, back to the original subject, apparently Volosozhar/Trankov did their short program at the test skate today (a version with lyrics, because they don't have their music without yet), and all elements were cleanly done, and the choreography/transitions were seamless. If that's the case, and the same holds true in the LP, they should have even more success this year, as somewhat clunky Morosovian choreography could have been a major holdback. Here's hoping they rise above it going on towards Sochi.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  7. #87

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    I expect V&T to be better than last year because last year they had to get used to skating together. Now they can create better programs.

  8. #88
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    Kasey, have you run across a video of the test skate anywhere?
    If this is to end in fire
    Then we will all burn together

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    . Also, let's not pretend that Jamie Sale is particularly well-liked, as I think posters have ridiculed her way more than praised her.
    .
    To be fair, Jamie's off ice behaivior/comments seem to have been the brunt of this far moreso than her actual skating.

  10. #90
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    I love V/T's wonderful qualities -- the way they look together, their personalities, and their presence on the ice. They have time to continue to develop as partners, and to build upon their strengths. Of course, they have an excellent chance for gold in Sochi, not the least b/c the event will take place in their home country. Anything can happen between now and then, but surely the more time V/T have to gain experience together, the better they are sure to become, and they are already very good in spite of their short time together as a team.

    If S/S stay healthy and continue to compete (?), and are at their best in 2014, they will present perhaps the strongest challenge to V/T's pursuit of gold. Of course, there are a lot of strong teams that will also have time to improve and to fight for spots on the podium. Right now, I would love to see both V/T and S/S continue to challenge each other for the top of the podium. I like both teams, but I favor S/S more, as I've been a fan since they burst upon the World scene in 2005 with their Casablanca program. There's no doubt that S/S are currently the most innovative and well-rounded pair team in the World (many teams have adopted their innovative approach to pairs skating). S/S are uniquely matched, strength for strength, and their programs always contain challenging technical elements, innovative choreography, speed, and excellent musical interpretation. They also exhibit versatility in the range of programs they have performed (even though I am not always in love with their music and costume choices, I love their commitment and the way they make these choices work in unexpected ways). Despite some of the problems they have had on occasion with injury and inconsistency, S/S are arguably the best team in the world. They train very hard and always expect the best of themselves. Ingo is their secret weapon. I think of this team as S/S and S, The Three Musketeers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkie...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8cxX...eature=related


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRPYt...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXF9rAd3nX8


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUxx...eature=related


    Re earlier discussion of T/M: (they were beautiful together on the ice, but IMO, gorgeous line, unison, and technical precision does not make up for the fact that they lacked chemistry with each other and with the audience -- JMHO). In the case of S/Z, they went from last to first over a ten-year period as they got better and better, improving their spins, lines, artistry, and choreography, as well as further strengthening their amazing jumps, lifts and throws. The defining factor for me when I watch S/Z is the spine-tingling chemistry that is so palpable between them -- the audience is held spellbound. Undeniable magic:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qqHEd0Bq9o

    The impact of this performance was even greater due to the fact that Shen was skating injured.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 08-27-2011 at 03:55 PM.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    To be fair, Jamie's off ice behaivior/comments seem to have been the brunt of this far moreso than her actual skating.
    I did not like her skating either. Poor posture, lack of lines, and lack of unison do not please me, particularly in pairs skating.

    I just had to type that because of your comment about her off ice behavior.

  12. #92
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    Alot can change in 3 years but right now I really hope S/S or V/T win the 2014 Gold. They are really the only worthy pairs right now of such a big title (and even they arent anywhere near all time greats at this point, although V/T especialy could get there someday maybe). P/T IMO have already had a nice career for themselves with 2 World titles, Oly silver (after being robbed of an 06 medal), and a slew of other medals, but I really felt they arent an Oly Champion worthy pair though. The Zhangs werent worthy of such an achievement even in their best years, which sadly seem past them, although I hope they prove me wrong. I like Kavaguti & Smirnov but I am now doubting they will ever fulfill their vast potential. Hanging on and being strong enough by 2014 to win gold, and even regaining favor of the RSF as the #1, well my hats off to them if they ever pull it off, I will leave it at that. Then there are the up and comers who probably wont be even World Championship calibre until many of the veterans retire after 2014, if ever.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Meanwhile, back to the original subject, apparently Volosozhar/Trankov did their short program at the test skate today (a version with lyrics, because they don't have their music without yet), and all elements were cleanly done, and the choreography/transitions were seamless. If that's the case, and the same holds true in the LP, they should have even more success this year, as somewhat clunky Morosovian choreography could have been a major holdback. Here's hoping they rise above it going on towards Sochi.
    was it their SP or their exhibition number? the video description indicated "exhibition", not SP. some posters have also discussed in the Great Debate forum that it was an exhibition number that they performed in the test skate, not any of their competitive programs

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    was it their SP or their exhibition number? the video description indicated "exhibition", not SP. some posters have also discussed in the Great Debate forum that it was an exhibition number that they performed in the test skate, not any of their competitive programs
    They did exhibition number yesterday, but in August at closed test skates they skated short program ("Bring me to Life").

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