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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    It was Cohen's to lose and as per usual, she lost it. I was actually more shocked with Cohen's meltdown than I was with Kimmie winning.
    This particular meltdown was blamed on exhaustion after the Olympics...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't know which win was more shocking- Hughes in 2002 or Kimmie's in 2006. I would have to go with Hughes as more shocking, as the field included Kwan and Slutskaya. Kimmie's competition was Cohen and Suguri.
    Yes but that's assuming that Kimmie and Sarah were equal skaters. I don't think so... Sarah was much stronger. The most surprising thing was that Kwan melted, not that Sarah did well. It is definitely shocking that Kimmie won that worlds, *however* the two competitions with Kimmie and Sarah cannot really be compared (other than the underdog won.) Because 02 had a strong field and 06 had a very weak field.

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    I agree that the most surprising thing about the 2002 Olympics was that Kwan and Slutskaya skated well below their standard. I remember thinking that Sarah Hughes gave a great bronze medal performance right after she had skated in SLC thinking that Kwan and Slutskaya were going to duke it out a la 2001 Worlds.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  4. #44
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    Thanks so much for posting those, but I must say that about halfway through all those toe axels started to make me itchy. So much bad technique over and over again makes me uncomfortable.

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    I'd have to go back to the protocols, but compared to the mistakes in Torino, Sasha Cohen's mistakes in the Calgary Worlds LP were more costly (in points) than at the Olympics.

    I think 3F+COMBO might have not even existed back then if you didn't even attempt a combination for the repeated triple attempt (so perhaps invalid element?). There was also an omission of the 3 salchow at the back end of the 3-3 sequence. Considering there were two other errors in the program, I'm thinking that Sasha could have gotten away with 1-2 errors and still won Worlds that year....but she didn't.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny81 View Post
    She did a 3lutz-3toe combination (not 3F-3T), right?

    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    She did both.

    For all of the problems with Kimmie's toe-axel, she actually had a nice "real" axel

    I pointed out her a terrible 'Lip-jump' actually.
    Yes, she tried to do two kinds of triple-triple combination in competition.
    But, her 3Lutz-3toe & 3F-3toe is totally the same.
    sigh...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny81 View Post
    I pointed out her a terrible 'Lip-jump' actually.
    Yes, she tried to do two kinds of triple-triple combination in competition.
    But, her 3Lutz-3toe & 3F-3toe is totally the same.
    sigh...
    I actually felt bad for her in the 07/08 season. She spent the summer practicing a 3f/3r combo but that season was when the ISU debuted the "e" mark for edge problems. Until that point, the ISU had never made any noise about "lip" jumps and I think it was a shock for her to start getting negative GOE on a jump she had been doing for years. It also rendered her hard work on the new combo totally useless when you factor in the "e" coupled with the ever present risk of a downgrade on a loop combo.

    Great video. Kimmie also landed a 3z/3t at junior worlds on 04 and I'm sure the video is in fsvids. I remember seeing three videos of Kimmie practicing 3f/3r. One was a local news special where the reporter called it "the hardest jump in the WORLD!" :lol They also showed a clip of her practicing it at a pro event (or maybe SOI) during a fluff piece. You can also see a faulty attempt on the NBC feed in the warm-up before her LP at Nationals. These were all in the 07/08 season.

  8. #48
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    All of this talk about jumps reminded me of something I did about two years ago...

    It was a general assumption that Sasha Cohen never got through a major competition without at least one mistake. I decided to find some solid facts on that once and for all. I compiled a list of all of Sasha's jumps at major competitions (ie. nationals, worlds, olympics) and started crunching some numbers. I did percentages on her best jump, worst jumps, how often she made mistakes and where the first one usually occurred. I was right about some stuff but was surprised with some of the stuff I found.

    It was a long post so I won't re-post the whole thing, but you can check it out here: http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?22756-Sasha-Cohen-s-Jump-Stats-Just-the-Facts...&highlight=

    It took me several days of watching videos, organizing data and then crunching it all down...but I gotta admit, it was a lot of fun. I said I'd do other skaters statistics at some point once I find the time.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    All of this talk about jumps reminded me of something I did about two years ago...

    It was a general assumption that Sasha Cohen never got through a major competition without at least one mistake. I decided to find some solid facts on that once and for all. I compiled a list of all of Sasha's jumps at major competitions (ie. nationals, worlds, olympics) and started crunching some numbers. I did percentages on her best jump, worst jumps, how often she made mistakes and where the first one usually occurred. I was right about some stuff but was surprised with some of the stuff I found.

    It was a long post so I won't re-post the whole thing, but you can check it out here: http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?22756-Sasha-Cohen-s-Jump-Stats-Just-the-Facts...&highlight=

    It took me several days of watching videos, organizing data and then crunching it all down...but I gotta admit, it was a lot of fun. I said I'd do other skaters statistics at some point once I find the time.
    Nice work!! Very interesting, even though it's very OT

  10. #50
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    Kwan

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    All of this talk about jumps reminded me of something I did about two years ago...

    It was a general assumption that Sasha Cohen never got through a major competition without at least one mistake. I decided to find some solid facts on that once and for all. I compiled a list of all of Sasha's jumps at major competitions (ie. nationals, worlds, olympics) and started crunching some numbers. I did percentages on her best jump, worst jumps, how often she made mistakes and where the first one usually occurred. I was right about some stuff but was surprised with some of the stuff I found.

    It was a long post so I won't re-post the whole thing, but you can check it out here: http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?22756-Sasha-Cohen-s-Jump-Stats-Just-the-Facts...&highlight=

    It took me several days of watching videos, organizing data and then crunching it all down...but I gotta admit, it was a lot of fun. I said I'd do other skaters statistics at some point once I find the time.

    That is a really interesting analysis! Do you have a link to MK stats that were promised at the end of the Sasha post? That could be even more interesting!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Nice work!! Very interesting, even though it's very OT
    I know! But I figured since we were talking about Kimmie's 2006 win and what a shock it was/wasn't against Sasha, I figured it was worth mentioning...I'm a bit random like that at times.

    Burritos are very good...see what I mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jessiesk8r View Post
    That is a really interesting analysis! Do you have a link to MK stats that were promised at the end of the Sasha post? That could be even more interesting!
    Errm...no I never did those MK stats. It took me three or four days to do all of Sasha's stats and like I said, I'd be dealing with 10+ years of major competitions were I to do the Kween's jump stats. I don't have as much free time as I did back then, but it's something that I'll try to keep in mind for a rainy day.

  12. #52
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    That's amazing, Kwanatic. Thank you for taking the time to do that. Very impressive. It's funny how Cohen never skated a clean competition in a major, but averaged 5 triples throughout. It's no wonder she always made the podium. Her 3toe I think was her worst jump. She had the tendency to overrotate it, and sometimes her falls on it were spectacular.

  13. #53
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    Would have been interesting to include Sasha's 2010 FS... no doubt the worst ever. But why kick her when she's down? A couple things I find amazing 1) she never did a clean LP - so her reputation is correct; and 2) she never popped - at least she always tried to rotate, even if there was a fall or one of her many wonky, creative two-foot landings.

    Which reminds me of a story... I went to see my doctor and told her I was a skater. She said "Ah, you know who I like? That Sasha girl. But her problem is she's too flexible, like Gumby. Her legs just split instead of holding up her landings."

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Would have been interesting to include Sasha's 2010 FS... no doubt the worst ever. But why kick her when she's down? A couple things I find amazing 1) she never did a clean LP - so her reputation is correct; and 2) she never popped - at least she always tried to rotate, even if there was a fall or one of her many wonky, creative two-foot landings.

    Which reminds me of a story... I went to see my doctor and told her I was a skater. She said "Ah, you know who I like? That Sasha girl. But her problem is she's too flexible, like Gumby. Her legs just split instead of holding up her landings."
    Well, but this included only Nats, Worlds and Olys. Sasha had three clean FS's in her life: Worlds 2003 and 2004 QR's and Marshall's Challenge 2004. All were spectacular. Sasha really could be totally amazing and probably the best skater if she only could land all her jumps. With her line, posture, perfect positions, spirals, spins, wonderful artistry and grace... Scott Hamilton once said during Olympic Ice that Sasha is one of the most beautiful skaters to ever grace the ice. In case of popping, I like it more when a skater try to do all rotations like Sasha than pop a jump. The only time I remember Sasha popping a jump was Campbell's 2004 when she popped triple loop into a single.

    Here's my video with her attempts at triple-triples and quad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiHedeIKkyw

    I'll upload new version because I found two new 3Lz+3T's: Worlds 2002 and Trophee Lalique 2002.

  15. #55
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    I dunno, for some reason I always found Cohen to be overrated.

    She had some fire and spark when she was younger but that disappeared and she always seemed tentative and timid. Sort of like how Nagasu is now.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    Well, but this included only Nats, Worlds and Olys. Sasha had three clean FS's in her life: Worlds 2003 and 2004 QR's and Marshall's Challenge 2004. All were spectacular. Sasha really could be totally amazing and probably the best skater if she only could land all her jumps. With her line, posture, perfect positions, spirals, spins, wonderful artistry and grace... Scott Hamilton once said during Olympic Ice that Sasha is one of the most beautiful skaters to ever grace the ice. In case of popping, I like it more when a skater try to do all rotations like Sasha than pop a jump. The only time I remember Sasha popping a jump was Campbell's 2004 when she popped triple loop into a single.
    I can't find videos of the 2003-2004 QRs, but not surprising that she was clean there and Marshalls because none of those are one of "the big ones." QR is important but it's not SP or LP. Her Marshalls was amazing. The really nutty thing about that competition is that she came in third (something that should probably be discussed in the "worst judged competitions" thread). That program in 2010 would have given Yuna a run for her money.

  17. #57
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    One thing about Sasha though is when she made a mistake in the LP she kept fighting and landing her jumps and that's why she was on so many podiums. Mirai needs to watch some clips of Sasha and see that you don 't quit when you make a mistake.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    I dunno, for some reason I always found Cohen to be overrated.

    She had some fire and spark when she was younger but that disappeared and she always seemed tentative and timid. Sort of like how Nagasu is now.
    Yes, but I am not sure if it's a good comparison. For one thing, while you see Nagasu as tentative and timid, a lot of people rave about her skating and think she is simply amazing.

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    Well, Nagasu is that way when she skates not to lose. She CAN be a great skater as we saw at 2010 Nats and Olys. Too bad she has not risen to that level of competitiveness since...

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I can't find videos of the 2003-2004 QRs, but not surprising that she was clean there and Marshalls because none of those are one of "the big ones." QR is important but it's not SP or LP. Her Marshalls was amazing. The really nutty thing about that competition is that she came in third (something that should probably be discussed in the "worst judged competitions" thread). That program in 2010 would have given Yuna a run for her money.
    Sasha actually had a spectacular win with this program at Marshall's 2004. She got a couple of 6's for presentation and beat world champion Shizuka (it was one month after 2004 Worlds) even though she ladned a triple-triple. Michelle made many mistakes in her routine to Tosca and finished third. It was really an interesting competition. Miki Ando was there as well and landed two triple-triples and had a brave attempt at her quad salchow (she had clean landing but three quarters of a cheat on it).

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