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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I disagree that these children are "sexualized". I've worked with sexually abused children and "sexualized" means they are actively coming on to adults, masturbating, and engaged in range of sexual behaviours inappropriate to their age.

    These kids are being taught to vamp for show, but that is not the same thing as being sexualized.
    Okay, fine -- wrong word choice. But we all know what HC meant. These children are being presented as sexual objects. They are being sexually objectified. Regardless of what you call it, it's revolting.

  2. #62
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    Just so we're all on the same page, what exactly do people mean by "sexualized"?

    Wearing makeup and hairpieces? Two piece outfits? Saloon girl costumes? Wiggling and winking as they dance and do their routines? Being judged in part on their appearance? Touched up photos?

    Also, I didn't realize that masturbation was an "inappropriate behaviour" for a child - at what age is it considered acceptable?

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Also, I didn't realize that masturbation was an "inappropriate behaviour" for a child - at what age is it considered acceptable?
    Sexualized children don't masturbate in the same was as normal children. It becomes an obsession with them.

  4. #64

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    Can Eden Wood really sing...as in sing with a TUNE? This "Cutie Patootie" is just a bunch of rap-style yelling. ROTFL!!!

    These kiddie pageants are just a hobby-diversion first for the moms, then for some of the kids. After a while, if the child is truly talented, she moves on to a more normal activity (singing, piano, ballet, sports, etc.). If she is a totally untalented brat (like Mackenzie of T&T, who still sucks her pacifier at age 5), then she's to be pitied. Luckily, most of these girls move on to more meaningful activities and hopefully get out of the pageant experiece a love for good grooming and confidence. Life is a competition, after all.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  5. #65

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    I just found the hilarious bit about Makenzie screaming for her pacifier before the pageant:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdVt...eature=related
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    I just found the hilarious bit about Makenzie screaming for her pacifier before the pageant:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdVt...eature=related
    That part at the end when she has her ni-ni in her mouth and she's telling her mother "DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN!!" reminds me of this (2:52): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlTD...eature=related

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    That part at the end when she has her ni-ni in her mouth and she's telling her mother "DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN!!" reminds me of this (:08): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlTD...eature=related
    LOL, Bev! The only difference is that (gulp) Makenzie isn't acting.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyskate View Post
    Wasn't she the kid who got to keep using her "ni-ni"/ pacifier so long that it deformed her teeth/bite? That is terrible of her parents to allow that to occur and I hate to be judgmental. Might have even deformed her gums/palate in some way and I think the guy who made her "flipper" even mentioned the problem. You mean NO one in the family insisted this be stopped when they saw the deformity happening?
    About her terrible temper, any chance she may outgrow any of that?
    Yes that is the girl. Beautiful child, as is Eden, but a monster brat.

  9. #69
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    If a child wants to quit, let her. If she takes time away and wants to come back later, also let her.

    Susan Akin, a former Miss America, had competed in over 100 kiddie pageants, then quit. She came back into the pageant circuit as an adult, and won it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    If a child wants to quit, let her. If she takes time away and wants to come back later, also let her.
    I don't get the impression that these are parents who let the kids do what the kids want to do. Especially the parents of the babes in arms "competing" in the very junior age groups.

    Susan Akin, a former Miss America, had competed in over 100 kiddie pageants, then quit. She came back into the pageant circuit as an adult, and won it all.
    So obviously she had sensible parents, and, IIRC, was actually reasonably talented (singing). Eden and MaKenzie don't seem to have either of those attributes....
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    Gypsy may be my second-favorite musical of all time, but I'm just hoping that, in terms of major productions, we have a few years until we'll see the next one!

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Eden has not exhibited the singing/dancing talent necessary to play Baby June.
    Here's a clip of the real Baby June Hovick in a 1918 Harold Lloyd comedy. The print is faded and not easy on the eyes, but you can see that June really could dance around on her tippy toes at a very young age. And her hair was poofy and blond, just like in "Gypsy."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFFFfPa0Mo

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferlyon View Post
    Here's a clip of the real Baby June Hovick in a 1918 Harold Lloyd comedy. The print is faded and not easy on the eyes, but you can see that June really could dance around on her tippy toes at a very young age. And her hair was poofy and blond, just like in "Gypsy."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFFFfPa0Mo
    Thanks for that! What fun. I just loved the music! Little June was cute....I didn't see her shaking her tailfeathers at all. Just being a little girl.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Call it what you like. It's way too extreme for their ages, and I find it highly objectionable.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaternum View Post
    Okay, fine -- wrong word choice. But we all know what HC meant. These children are being presented as sexual objects. They are being sexually objectified. Regardless of what you call it, it's revolting.
    Do you object to the non glitz pageants as well? The ones where there are no ridiculous outfits, no bathing suits and no makeup? If the child is just in a pretty dress on stage, are they still being sexualized? Where exactly does it cross the line?

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Where exactly does it cross the line?
    It crosses the line when they look like porn stars. I find the glitz pageants to be extremely disturbing and not age appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferlyon View Post
    Here's a clip of the real Baby June Hovick in a 1918 Harold Lloyd comedy. The print is faded and not easy on the eyes, but you can see that June really could dance around on her tippy toes at a very young age. And her hair was poofy and blond, just like in "Gypsy."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFFFfPa0Mo
    Putting a child that young en pointe should be considered child abuse- it causes physical harm (I realize this was a different time...)

    I don't think these pageants are abuse, but I also think they generally aren't appropriate. Making your toddler look like a hooker and dance like an adult on MTV is not okay with me.

    (Though I do have a strange affinity for the few kids on the show who really seem to love it, and aren't shown in doing grown up dance moves. Kids really do like playing dress up- I just don't understand why you need to spend their college funds for it.)

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Where exactly does it cross the line?
    I think it crosses the line when the children are tarted up to look like Vegas showgirls. IMO, they should not be allowed to wear flippers, wigs, falls, extensions, or compete in bathing suits. The outfits should be age appropriate and not shrunken showgirl outfits.

  17. #77
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    Personally, even in a full glitz pageant, I've never seen a participant who looks like a porn star, hooker or Vegas showgirl. For that matter, I don't think women in those professions tend to wear glitzy cupcake dresses either.

    I'm not defending glitz pageants, but I also don't think subjective hyperbole is helpful to the discussion. I get that a lot of people find glitz pageants, and in some cases all pageants, completely distasteful.

    What I'm more interested in is what that opinion is based on, and exactly when the line is crossed from innocent play to sexualization. We all know the extremes - but what about what's in between?

  18. #78
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    You know, for me, it's not the cupcake dresses that are the problems. It's the outfit of choice, and the dance that goes along with it.

    I don't mind little kids in bikini's if they are looking like little kids, and dancing like little kids. But once they get to the 5 or 6 year age and older, and they are made up to look like adults, dancing like adults, it isn't appropriate.

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    I'm of exactly the opposite point of view. My girls loved to put on tons of makeup, sparkly clothes and dance to songs like Vogue. They would have LOVED a glitz pageant- it bears no resemblance to reality. It truly is a dress up contest.

    On the other hand, I HATE the all natural pageants, and beauty pageants in general. Sometimes the plump and homely little girls are also the best at glitzing and vogueing- it is a talent- albeit a really weird one, but you have to be pretty to win a natural pageant.

    My 17 year old daughter is planning on saying yes, if anyone ever asks her to be in a pageant. And then showing up in full glitz.
    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    If a child wants to quit, let her. If she takes time away and wants to come back later, also let her.

    Susan Akin, a former Miss America, had competed in over 100 kiddie pageants, then quit. She came back into the pageant circuit as an adult, and won it all.
    My friend's grandaughter is the current Miss America and there is some serious scholarship money out there (and she needed it!) But the kiddie stuff offers very little in the way of bonds, cash, some sort of scholarship-- I do agree with the posters who say it is all about the mothers.

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