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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    I have to disagree with you. Rosie DiManno aside, the Star is a very professional newspaper with a strong reputation. It could well be that someone involved with G&P phoned up the Star and said, here's a story you might be interested in, but that is no different from how a lot of stories come to newspapers. Plus Poirier is from the geographical area that the Star serves also makes this more newsworty. That you personally disagree with how the story was framed does not make the story wrong, or the paper unethical.
    The question is, how does such a minor team manage such a large photo and story on the front page of a National newspaper, together with a leading headline of the sport section and continuing story inside, followed the next day by a closed editorial piece clearly suggesting this team is Canada's leading contender for gold.

    V/M had extensive successes spanning many years, and had to WIN Olympic gold to get front page coverage.

  2. #382

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    Quote Originally Posted by intentions View Post
    The question is, how does such a minor team manage such a large photo and story on the front page of a National newspaper, together with a leading headline of the sport section and continuing story inside, followed the next day by a closed editorial piece clearly suggesting this team is Canada's leading contender for gold.

    V/M had extensive successes spanning many years, and had to WIN Olympic gold to get front page coverage.
    Maybe they have a good publicist? Maybe someone in their families has good connections? I'm more inclined to think it's either of those options, and not Skate Canada as some are thinking.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeperryfan View Post
    Maybe they have a good publicist? Maybe someone in their families has good connections? I'm more inclined to think it's either of those options, and not Skate Canada as some are thinking.
    Agreed. Good PR, good connections and lots of money to pay.

    It is just so entitled, presumptuous, and down right insulting to the many immigrants without these benefits who are waiting their time. I daresay one could find many stories there of "exceptional service / undue hardship" that are not whined about on the front page of the Star.

  4. #384

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    Do Ralph & Hill have citizenship? Kharis is from the U.S., too.

  5. #385
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    Kharis has dual US citizenship through her mother. She has lived all her life in Canada.

  6. #386
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    Look at the front page again

    https://twitter.com/PiperGilles/stat...081728/photo/1

    The actual story is on the front section of the sports page (S1).

    Now look at the stories that are on the front page: Daycare secrets; sinking wages; aboriginal health experiments; subway fund shortage.

    Per typical newspaper design, the newspaper needed a centerpiece photo or art and none of those front page stories had it (or there wasn't time to do any illustrations that would serve as such). So what do they do? They take a photo of a story that is somewhat interesting from another section and use that as the front page centerpiece photo with a refer to the sports page.

    If it was a different day where there were more breaking news day that involved fires, crime or something else (or the announcement of the drug habits of the mayor, since we're talking about Toronto) that would yield centerpiece art, then Gilles' story would likely have remained on the sports front.

    I see the front page treatment as editors deciding that that was the best way to front centerpiece art when none of the A1 stories had any.

    Sure, team Lane/publicists may have be influential as far as making the paper aware of the story. But the paper likely found it newsworthy because 1.) it involves a local team 2.) immigration stories, in general, are quite popular given today's climate. 3.) While we as hard-core fans percieve G/P as a second-tier Ice Dance team, the editors at The Star -- who are likely not figure skating fans -- may still deem it noteworthy to tell the story of a team that has seen national success at least (they were silver medalists this year.).

    As for the fact the editorial came just days after the story -- that isn't an uncommon occurrence. Most editorial boards write editorials based on stories/events that happened recently. The editorial boards of most newspapers have to fill the editorial page daily, so it's likely they saw the story and say, hey, this is worth commenting on. Again, Team Lane might had influence in getting the ball rolling, but I believe that any influence ends there.

  7. #387

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    Quote Originally Posted by intentions View Post
    The question is, how does such a minor team manage such a large photo and story on the front page of a National newspaper
    The Star has one of the largest circulations in Canada, but it isn't distributed (physically) in any great numbers outside the GTA. It's not a "national" newspaper. The Globe and Mail produces print editions in markets outside Toronto, so it and the National Post (horrible as it is) are "national" newspapers. Not the Star.

    together with a leading headline of the sport section and continuing story inside, followed the next day by a closed editorial piece clearly suggesting this team is Canada's leading contender for gold.
    An editorial is an opinion piece. You may not agree with the opinion, and it may be an ill-informed opinion, but I see nothing wrong with the Star expressing its opinion when it is clearly identified as such. And as to how G/P "managed" such coverage, I would suspect it has more to do with this time of year generally being slow for news, plus a lot of media outlets struggling to fill space when the Royal baby didn't show up on time. G/P or someone on their behalf may have contacted the Star about doing a story, but the amount of coverage they got was the Star's choice. I can assure you that at newspapers like the Star, the subjects of stories usually do not get to direct the amount or type of coverage their story gets.

    And since Poirier has been a national ice dance champion and gone to the Olympics, I would not call him and Gillies a "minor" team.


    V/M had extensive successes spanning many years, and had to WIN Olympic gold to get front page coverage.
    Yes, and how many other Canadian skaters of any kind got front page coverage in recent years when they won Grand Prix events or Worlds? I suspect the answer is very few, if any. That is not evidence of some kind of anti-V/M plot, it's just that Canadian newspapers don't give skating a lot of high-profile coverage at all if it isn't in the Olympics.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  8. #388
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    "Red-tape shouldn't keep this athlete from going for gold."

    Red-tape isn't what's keeping them from going for gold. The 17 teams that beat them at Worlds are a bigger obstacle. I was operating on the assumption that citizenship wouldn't be a problem anyway, so I just hope that if they make it to the Olympics, I can cheer it on as the fair result.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Yes, and how many other Canadian skaters of any kind got front page coverage in recent years when they won Grand Prix events or Worlds? I suspect the answer is very few, if any. That is not evidence of some kind of anti-V/M plot, it's just that Canadian newspapers don't give skating a lot of high-profile coverage at all if it isn't in the Olympics.
    I never suggested it was an anti V/M plot. Rather a team who has earned far more coverage receives very little in comparison. Likewise for other skaters/teams.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by intentions View Post
    I never suggested it was an anti V/M plot. Rather a team who has earned far more coverage receives very little in comparison. Likewise for other skaters/teams.
    Not that this justifies the coverage, but the immigration angle + the fact that G/P are a local skating pair to Toronto is clearly the key reason they are getting this kind of coverage.

    Again, look at this from the angle of the editors at the Toronto Star. They are not of the mind of "oh we shouldn't cover this because they are a 18th place world team" that fans are. They are more of the mind of "Oh hey, here's a team who may be at the Olympics but can because of red tape. We ought to cover this."

    What would have made this story better (and perhaps less G/P centric) if they looked at the immigration issues that tend to come up when it comes to the Olympics. They sort of touch on that subject in mentioning examples of athletes (i.e. Weaver) who were successful in 5-4 citizenship efforts, but it would have been interesting to discuss whether this is a common thing worldwide. Or perhaps questioned/looked more into the reasoning why the IOC insists on citizenship for all partners. Sure it's obvious, but it still would be worth mentioning.

  11. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by intentions View Post
    I never suggested it was an anti V/M plot. Rather a team who has earned far more coverage receives very little in comparison. Likewise for other skaters/teams.
    Are you seriously saying that this article about G/P is more coverage than other Canadian skaters have received? Were you even looking at pretty much any newspaper in Canada while the 2010 Olympics were taking place?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  12. #392

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    Get those back issues of The Star during Worlds in London. I am pretty sure there were a couple of photographs of Tessa and Scott (and Patrick) in the newspaper.

    Seems to me the athletes who could be "pitied" are those who are also trying to get their Canadian citizenship before the Games. Are there any? I'm pretty sure if someone like Patrick Kane or one of the Sedin twins was trying to play for the Canadian men's hockey team, the editors would've completely ignored Piper and Paul.

    ETA: Joannie, Tessa, Scott and Patrick were featured in the front pages of a lot of Canadian newspapers after one of their Grand Prix victories. Especially during the lead up of the 2010 Games. Usually along with other Canadian athletes doing well in their competitions on that same weekend.
    Last edited by manhn; 07-24-2013 at 04:51 AM.

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    I have to disagree with you. Rosie DiManno aside, the Star is a very professional newspaper with a strong reputation. It could well be that someone involved with G&P phoned up the Star and said, here's a story you might be interested in, but that is no different from how a lot of stories come to newspapers. Plus Poirier is from the geographical area that the Star serves also makes this more newsworty. That you personally disagree with how the story was framed does not make the story wrong, or the paper unethical.
    Your opinion of The Star is by no means universal. Furthermore, as Skate Canada has gone overboard promoting Piper & Paul out of all proportion to their results, I think it's very reasonable to believe they had a hand in not just the prominence of this story, but its key omissions. Given how Gilles & Poirier have been scored at home, I think that plays a part in how people see them "earning" their spot. It is framed as if the spot will be handed to them with a passport, and the competition at Canadians only a formality. That's different than Weaver & Poje, who actually did have to compete (and didn't succeed). Given the disproportionate support and publicity they've been getting from their Fed (more than the Fed has given the Olympic champions of late), I can't blame people for thinking this is an attempt to railroad Gilles & Poirier into Sochi. After all this hue and cry in The Star for a passport, if Gilles gets one, would they actually not send Gilles & Poirier to Sochi? I think that's already decided.

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Are you seriously saying that this article about G/P is more coverage than other Canadian skaters have received? Were you even looking at pretty much any newspaper in Canada while the 2010 Olympics were taking place?
    Actually, I am.

    I am not referring to just this one article and not to specific competition or Worlds/Olympic times. But for example, where are all the articles on Paul/Islam, Ralph/Hill, or for that matter Weaver/Poje? Moore-Towers/Moscovitch also come to mind.

    As a second tier team, across various media, G/P seem to garner quite a bit of print time, and an editorial to boot.
    Last edited by intentions; 07-24-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Not that this justifies the coverage, but the immigration angle .....

    What would have made this story better (and perhaps less G/P centric) if they looked at the immigration issues that tend to come up when it comes to the Olympics. They sort of touch on that subject in mentioning examples of athletes (i.e. Weaver) who were successful in 5-4 citizenship efforts, but it would have been interesting to discuss whether this is a common thing worldwide. Or perhaps questioned/looked more into the reasoning why the IOC insists on citizenship for all partners. Sure it's obvious, but it still would be worth mentioning.
    Perhaps, and since this is a skating, it would have been worth looking at why federations hold their skaters and limit their abilities to skate for other countries (not that this applied to Gilles - her accomplishments in the US, did not warrant the USFSA holding onto her).

  16. #396

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    One. Article. People make it seem like Gilles & Poirier are covered liked the Royal Baby.

    Oh, wait--a skater in an actual national newspaper? OMG!

    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...hts-on-canada/

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Your opinion of The Star is by no means universal. Furthermore, as Skate Canada has gone overboard promoting Piper & Paul out of all proportion to their results, I think it's very reasonable to believe they had a hand in not just the prominence of this story, but its key omissions. Given how Gilles & Poirier have been scored at home, I think that plays a part in how people see them "earning" their spot. It is framed as if the spot will be handed to them with a passport, and the competition at Canadians only a formality. That's different than Weaver & Poje, who actually did have to compete (and didn't succeed). Given the disproportionate support and publicity they've been getting from their Fed (more than the Fed has given the Olympic champions of late), I can't blame people for thinking this is an attempt to railroad Gilles & Poirier into Sochi. After all this hue and cry in The Star for a passport, if Gilles gets one, would they actually not send Gilles & Poirier to Sochi? I think that's already decided.
    Thank you Subway, you said it better than I did.

  18. #398
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    The current anti G&P hysteria is almost as bad as the anti G&P hysteria from the 90's.

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    What would have made this story better (and perhaps less G/P centric) if they looked at the immigration issues that tend to come up when it comes to the Olympics. They sort of touch on that subject in mentioning examples of athletes (i.e. Weaver) who were successful in 5-4 citizenship efforts, but it would have been interesting to discuss whether this is a common thing worldwide. Or perhaps questioned/looked more into the reasoning why the IOC insists on citizenship for all partners. Sure it's obvious, but it still would be worth mentioning.
    That would have made it okay, but what would have really made it better is being honest about G/P's prospects. This article leaves uninformed readers with the impression that G/P are guaranteed an Olympic berth and the only thing in their way is a passport. The editorial claims that the Ministry of Immigration is depriving them of a shot at an Olympic medal. It makes no mention at all of Nationals, where several teams will by vying for the third Olympic spot.

    I'm not saying that they have to undermine themselves in an interview, but I'd appreciate if they and/or the author and/or editor didn't deliberately mislead. It makes me wonder what they've told the Ministry of Immigration. I certainly hope they haven't hinted to the Minister that they're a medal prospect for Sochi, as proclaimed in the editorial.

    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    One. Article. People make it seem like Gilles & Poirier are covered liked the Royal Baby.
    This one article is what finally caused a reaction, but it's just the latest instance in a pattern of media outlets giving this team hype disproportionate to their skill and accomplishments.
    Last edited by teaspoon; 07-24-2013 at 06:39 AM.

  20. #400

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Furthermore, as Skate Canada has gone overboard promoting Piper & Paul out of all proportion to their results, I think it's very reasonable to believe they had a hand in not just the prominence of this story, but its key omissions.
    With all due respect, Skate Canada, or any sports federation for that matter, does not get to dictate where a story is placed in a newspaper or what that story leaves out.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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